Ivan VI rouble -real or fake?

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by GregH, Aug 9, 2020.

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Real or fake?

  1. Real

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Fake

    8 vote(s)
    100.0%
  1. GregH

    GregH Well-Known Member

    Hi there

    I mostly collect ancients and I don't know Russian coins well. I have come across this 1741 rouble of Ivan VI, which i suspect is a reproduction.

    In its favour: weight is correct at 25.85g & diameter is 41mm. Style looks right too.

    However, I still suspect this is a fake. I'm not sure the metal looks right. And I realise real ones hammer for prices in the thousands.

    What do you think? Real or fake?

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  3. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

  4. GregH

    GregH Well-Known Member

  5. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    Yep, we live and learn here, that seems to be all I do here! :D
     
  6. John Conduitt

    John Conduitt Well-Known Member

    A real Ivan VI ruble from the Moscow mint (MMD) can look a lot worse than the SPB one...
    https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces95668.html

    There is something not quite right about it though. It looks to be the same as this 'novodel' (i.e. a copy, possibly by the mint itself):
    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/russia-ivan-iii-russia-contemporary-409243247
    and this...
    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/russia-ioann-ivan-vi-silver-ruble-467158225

    Novodels can be worth a lot, but that one is a modern one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
    GregH likes this.
  7. GregH

    GregH Well-Known Member

    I greatly appreciate the info. Having visited Russia earlier in the year & visited The Armory in Moscow I’ve become fascinated with Russian royals. I’ve been collecting coins of Roman emperors & British monarchs & i’m thinking of starting a new theme of Russian rulers.
     
    Alegandron likes this.
  8. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Nice looking fake... Sorry
     
  9. John Conduitt

    John Conduitt Well-Known Member

    I too collect British, Roman and Russian rulers. The problem I've found with Russian rulers, though, is the portrait coins are expensive. Lower denominations don't tend to have them. Imagine trying to collect British rulers with nothing lower than a half crown.

    A decent Peter I ruble would be $750+. Alexander II didn't even have any and he ruled 26 years. The cheapest are things like the Elizabeth and Catherine II grivenniks (10 kopeks), $100+, but the portraits leave a lot to be desired, particularly if worn
    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1747-russia-elizabeth-silver-10-441044847

    On the other hand, non-portrait coins are cheap. While a real Ivan VI ruble might be $30,000, a good Ivan VI denga would be less than $100 (although it looks much like a Peter I denga). A nice Catherine II polushka is $20. And when you get back to before Peter I (i.e. only 300 years) all the coins are wire money, which are often cheap, even if most of them do look pretty much the same.
     
    GregH likes this.
  10. GregH

    GregH Well-Known Member

    I don't have a lot of interest in the wire money, only the portraits.

    On the positive side, the fact that the Russian portrait series is much shorter than the Roman, and even the British series, makes the task of collecting simpler (if not expensive). The artistry of the Russian portraits really appeals to me - there's some magnificent coins to collect!
     
  11. John Conduitt

    John Conduitt Well-Known Member

    Definitely. They're very different to the British ones, and the Romans. There are only about 10 emperors with portrait coins (excluding patterns and Novodels) and a couple of those might be unobtainable, so you can really take your time.
     
    GregH likes this.
  12. gxseries

    gxseries Coin Collector

    Genuine Ivan VI silver coin with his portrait is very expensive in any condition. Even in damaged condition, it's easily a strong 3 figure coin.

    I would ask from your money back asap.
     
    GregH likes this.
  13. GregH

    GregH Well-Known Member

    Oh, i didn't buy it, don't worry ;)

    From my experience collecting ancients, I'm well across the fact that fakes exist, and if something is too good to be true, it ALWAYS is.
     
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