It's hard to be humble!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Roman Collector, May 25, 2020.

  1. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

    Great Sestertius Gary, heres a FORT RED in silver:

    P1160856hadrianadjusted (2).jpg
     
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  3. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

  4. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    How about this for a boastful title: RESTITVTOR ORBIS = Restorer of the world. A common reverse type of Aurelian, but in near perfect condition from my collection:

    Screenshot 2020-05-26 at 22.23.06.png
     
  5. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    Dear Roman Collector,

    Interesting observations, but I'm afraid you are mistranslating parts of Trajan's legend.

    SPQR on the reverse is the subject of the legend, so is in the nominative case, as we can see from Marsyas Mike's coin above, where it is written out SENATVS POPVLVSQUE ROMANVS.

    The dative case of Trajan's name and titles is not the dative of agent, but the standard dative of dedication or indirect object, yielding this translation: "The Senate and the Roman People (dedicate this coin to, or express their veneration for) Trajan," with his various titles.

    That the dative case of Trajan's name and titles is dependent on the subject SPQR at the end of the legend is evident from Trajan's earlier coins of 112, on which Trajan's name reverts to the nominative case whenever SPQR is omitted from the reverse legend, as for example with the type DIVVS PATER TRAIAN.

    Best regards,

    Curtis Clay
     
  6. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths Supporter

    Dative, Nominative = Differentiation, Integration. All Greek too me.
     
  7. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Or Latin!
     
  8. NewStyleKing

    NewStyleKing Beware of Greeks bearing wreaths Supporter

  9. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Especially English
     
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  10. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    Thank you so much for your comments, @curtislclay and for supplying some important context for interpreting the legends on these coins.

    Of course, the inscriptions consist only of abbreviations and all of the inflectional endings are lost, so it's impossible without additional context to identify the nominative subject or to do proper exegesis of the dative case.

    You have provided essential context -- that SPQR is in the nominative -- by comparing its usage here to other coins in which the full inflectional endings are used. Knowing that SPQR is in the nominative, it must be the subject of the sentence and the dative must therefore be a dative of advantage.

    I have edited and corrected the relevant sections of the OP so as not to mislead readers who come across this thread in the future.

    Thanks again!
     
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  11. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the correction! "For" seems to me quite a good translation for the dative case in Trajan's legend, where the verb is left out.

    As to further context, I don't think anyone has ever doubted the meaning of Trajan's common reverse legend SPQR OPTIMO PRINCIPI, where SPQR is clearly the subject so in the nominative case, while OPTIMO PRINCIPI is in the dative case and is apparently an indirect object, defined thus by Google: "a noun phrase referring to someone or something that is affected by the action of a transitive verb (typically as a recipient), but is not the primary object (e.g. him in give him the book )."
     
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  12. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ...day 5....i've dug through all coins on the table, safe, dryer top...still no Trajan Victory....now to relook and try to remember what i did with the dang thing!...i've not lost a coin yet...yeah misplaced one or 2 for several months..years..but never lost!..:inpain:...anyway...i'll post the Trajan denauius of JAZ n i's (the Rablle ll overstrike) in 'The 5(6) Good Emperors in silver...back to the hunt:watching: Marcus Aurelius Lucius Verus ..the 6 good emp. silver complete 003.JPG Marcus Aurelius Lucius Verus ..the 6 good emp. silver complete 004.JPG
     
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