In numismatic circles, the common advice is..."Buy the book before the coin". When I was growing up, my Father had a similar saying that I always think of when trading securities. He said..."Never buy anything you don't understand". With all the excellent counterfeits of American coins (and slabs), it seems reasonable for the Chinese to make some effort to counterfeit ancient coins, as well. I would expect these counterfeits to be far more difficult to detect...given the inconsistency of the strikes. Are counterfeit Ancient coins an issue? When I look at Ancient coins, I have no way to tell if I'm looking at an actual historical artifact...or just another Chinese knockoff.
Thankfully, it does not appear the Chinese have attacked our market segment. However, we have CENTURIES of history with fake ancients. Its not perfect, and every collector of ancients needs to accept they will have fakes in their collection. I know I do, I just do not know which ones. Its just part of the hobby. One of our strengths is our diversity. Its not very profitable to fake ancients since all are fairly scarce as to type as opposed to modern coins. Any great quantity hitting the market is always a red flag. They simply could never make a "base" Alex III tet and modify control marks like they do Morgans. All of the mints made different style coins.
Yes, although I think the scenario you've painted is precisely where Ancient counterfeits are easiest to detect. The inconsistency means if you see any two coins exactly the same, you know they are fake. If you have a factory in China churning them out, you can't make very many until they're noticed. So it's not very economical for them. In a factory you will also find it easier to mass produce fakes of coins that were mass produced themselves. That means perfectly round flans. With Ancients those stand out as fakes straight away. Ancients are misshapen, the design falls of the flan... on a fake you can see where the original they're copying was missing detail that it shouldn't be if the strike was positioned as on the copy. On the other hand, the weight and size of the coin is not the guide it is with modern coins. Lots of CoinTalk members have written about spotting and avoiding fakes: http://augustuscoins.com/ed/numis/fakes.html http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/fake.html
It is fair to have that fear. I think the most important advice for Ancients is buy from trusted sources, not ebay ( Unless you have enough knowledge to see the forgeries.) .
And / Or you KNOW and TRUST the Seller on Ebay. There are SEVERAL excellent Ancients Sellers on Ebay. Many of whom post here in Coin Talk Ancients.
Maybe focus on a type and get to know it foibles. Make sure it's also a well-known and written up type preferably with die-studies. My area of NewStyles fulfills that and makes collecting easier. Every coin bought brings with it conscious and unconscious knowledge of the type, physical or otherwise. I have bought on ebay from trusted sellers and unknowns. The unknowns I think and think about..is it right, does the style look right, the flan size compatible.. I have almost certainly no fakes in my collection. All fakes of NewStyles are generally obvious at first sight.
Check out "ping yang yatai badge factory". Mostly they sell tokens but check out that fine collection of steel dies. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ancient-greek-coin-alexander-coin-great_1427249761.html Search on Ali Baba for "Greek Coin" and you will find several others.
Here is an original ebay advert I saw. Obviously the seller knew Athens,tetradrachm, and 2nd century (wrong). 17.1 gm, 29mm and from an old collection. I just at first laughed it off the reverse was even worse. I thought this must be a fake with dirt covering up the surfaces-anyhow a collector would have most probably cleaned it up easily. But intrigued when I read the magistrate DIOKLES-for the 2nd time. This is very rare very late type. So I concluded it was an old excellent tourist fake. The weight was above what I would expect from a late Newstyle , but the size was OK. I looked with admiration at the scrapes, flat strikes, off flan details and the encrustation. The NewStyle bible NSSCA (Thompson) vol 2 produced plates of the few known examples and the obverse was known but not the reverse. I thought if it stays cheap it might be worth a pop cos there actually is a chance it's real. I looked for fakes on Forum and Thompson etc but found none. What to do? There seemed to be some interest and a bid came in, but I concluded the seller bumped it up abit to attract interest. It went upto £160 and with £8posting and it was from the UK I took the plunge. It arrived rapidly and I broke it open with curiosity. It looked right, felt right. The strike and flan foibles looked genuine. Next I had to clean it-vinegar and a scrubbing brush and voila! It is now as you see it. I have absolutely no doubts. It is a genuine very rare very late coin. Luck comes to those who look,research, judge and take a gamble.
Yes! I am very tired of hearing people saying to avoid eBay (as if eBay sold coins) while allowing beginners to buy from fancy catalog auction houses that are known to be fake sellers now and then. eBay is a platform used by good and bad sellers. Anyone with a computer can set themselves up as a fancy auction dealer. Coin Talk regularly has posts on places to avoid. It is not necessary to be afraid of fakes if you either: 1. You are very expert yourself especially in some narrow specialty. (rarely describes me) 2. You buy only from trusted sellers. (I try, most of the time) 3. You hire a trusted third party agent to advise you and execute bids on your behalf. (only on special occasions) 4. There is a fourth way of doing it that I do not recommend to most. Don't worry; be happy. That is to realize that you will be buying a fake now and then and that that fact is part of your numismatic education. At least try not to keep making the same mistake time and time again. At my level of income, I am comfortable buying questionable items of very low value but I would not buy high end items costing an amount that I would not be comfortable losing. Those of you who have ten to a hundred times my disposable income can play differently than I might. Most of the people I know who spend large amounts have an advisor/agent. This same method might allow you to find coins you might otherwise miss because your life is too busy to spend that much time 'shopping'.
This is very wise advice. I tend to stick to what I know well, and I don’t make risky buys outside of those areas.
We all do. No one here knows everything, (well maybe @Barry Murphy ), but the rest of us plebs are here to share what we know and learn what we don't!
