Is widow mite Pruta coin xf worth collect?

The MCM is selling Widows Mite Bronze Pruta Ancient Coin NGC CH VF Choice V Fine on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/135-37-BC-W...686?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20fb7994fe
Is this a real Widows Mite coin , since the widows mite coin is known as lepton which is smaller than Pruta and the reverse side of the coin is different?
Is the XFine Lepton rarer than the XFine Pruta?

 

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Yikes! That is quite steep, especially considering the condition.

These coins are abundant.

 

I don't know the significant differences between the prutah or lepton in reference to the Widow's Mite story, but I do know both can be purchased in that condition for under $10 at any coin show. They usually have dozens in bins and don't come w/ the flowery booklets with pictures of Jesus and biblical quotes in them. Nothing wrong with those if you're into that kind of thing but people charge a lot for that stuff. Also not sure why someone would NGC slab one. The cost to slab one outweighs the value of the coin by a factor of 4.

 

Holy ripoff, NGC Fail both on grade and identification, Batman! First, only leptons are the "widow's mites", not prutah. In ancient greek bibles the coin is even named as "lepta". "Mite" came from the name of a tiny dutch copper coin in circulation in England at the time of King James rewriting of the Bible. A lepton is half the value of a prutah.

So, completely wrong coin to start. Next, "VF" is HIGHLY laughable. I have never seen NGC so BADLY grade a coin. That coin pictured is g-vg, and effectively uncollectible in that grade. Third, even if it WERE a VF its not worth that much money. Get a real lepton from a dealer for 1/6th the price and have the real McCoy.

Man, now can you guys understand why ancient people HATE NGC slabs? They have no idea what they are doing and really only serve to rip unknowledgable collectors off. What a bunch of idiotic thieves. Seriously, next time I see David Vagi I will have to say something about this atrocity. He used to be a very nice dealer, and a good author on Roman coins. Sad.

 

I'm ok calling this coin VF for the type. Hasmonean prutoh are poorly made and poorly preserved. This one exhibits most of the detail on the obverse, and the complete Paleo-Hebrew inscription on the reverse. It also has smooth, clean surfaces. Regardless what grade you give it, it is a desirable coin in my opinion.

It certainly is NOT VF when compared to higher standard Greco-Roman issues. If that's how you grade it, I have to agree with medoraman, G.

It is not by any means worth the asking price, but neither is it a $10 junk bin coin. I would expect to pay around $30 for it, raw. Neither is the coin pictured in the auction the one you will receive - it's a sample of the 49 that the dealer has in stock. I don't care to buy coins sight-unseen.

 

You're right. A correct translation out of Koine Greek reads: "And coming, one poor widow cast in two lepta, which is a quadrans."

I know very little about ancient coins and the grading thereof, but it is certainly a subject that interests me. Below is another coin MCM have for sale...

What are your thoughts? Where can one pick up higher grade coins than these at reasonable prices? What are the chances that these coins were handled by Jesus and the First Fruits?

In fairness to MCM, the prices they charge for these coins include 'free' shipping, a display case and a 'free' copy of the coffee table book Money of the Bible by noted Numismatic author Kenneth Bresset.

I am looking forward to your reply. Thanks.

P.S. I see NGC was at least honest enough not to state "Widow's Mite" on the capsule.​

 

I wasn't aware that the translation actually does mention the denomination. Very interesting!

 

It is very interesting indeed and there are many such gems in honest translations of God's Word.

The reality is that they've heavily messed about with translations of God's Word. E.g. the Greek words that get translated "Jew" and "Jews" should correctly be translated as "Judean" and "Judeans". This is why the words "Jew" and "Jews" for one never appeared in the first edition of the King James version of the Bible. It refers to entirely different groups of people. In any case, I am not interested to open a hornet's nest here. I am just mentioning it for interest sake.

 

Sorry, but I am not buying the "for type" argument. I came into ancients because they did away with all of the "weak strike", "worn dies" and other BS people made up to excuse a bad coin. That coin is not what any ancient collector thinks of as a VF. I don't care if 90% of coins of a series grade no better than vg, then that is their grade, vg, not "VF for type". Just my opinion.

Silverbullion, the coin you posted as ChXF is more like a VF ancient coin. That is what I would grade that coin, VF. NGC grading is simply out of touch with how ancient collectors grade. They dramatically overstate the grade compared to us. That VF coin is very nice for the type, and could see that one going for $75-90. Its a nice example. However, its still a prutah, not a lepton, (widow's mite).

 

On the other side of the coin, if you will, the term Jewish Coinage is used in numismatics. The coins of the Hasmoneans, various Judaean cities, the Roman Provincial prutoh, the Jewish War, and the Bar Khokba revolt are quite disparate, but they have one thing in common: they were all minted by Jews.

 

Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated.

 

It's cool. I don't abide by any sort of official grading system anyway. The only time I use grading letters is on searches for higher-grade coins. Type in XF or EF at vcoins, for instance, and you can theoretically see the "better" coins. It's also entertaining to see what dealers THINK of as better coins.

 

Interesting.

 

A bit off topic, but I wish Jesus had mentioned exactly WHICH Caesar was pictured on the "tribute penny" denarius. That would have put the matter to rest for collectors, but of course it has nothing to do with the lesson he was trying to teach.

 

I see the common translation in terms of the "tribute penny" is also not correct. It should read: "Why do you tempt Me? Bring Me a denarius, that I may see." I don't wish to got into the details here, but the book of Mark was written between 45 and 60 A.D. and the seven kings or Caesars who ruled were:

1) Augustus (31 BC - AD 14)
2) Tiberius (AD 14 -37)
3) Gaius (Caligula) (AD 37 - 41)
4) Claudius (AD 41 -54)
5) Nero (the "Beast of Rome") (AD 54 - 68)
6) Galba (AD 68 -69)
7) Otho (AD 69)

I hope the above helps.

 

"Tribute Penny" is a nickname that evolved among collectors. I have no idea when or where it started. But technically, since the story is told by Jesus, the denarius would have to be of either Augustus or Tiberius. The widely-accepted attribution is Tiberius.

 

I was in reference to the common Biblical translation of "penny", which collectors refer to as the "Tribute Penny" (as you note), instead of the more correct "denarius". Yes, either Augustus or Tiberius.

 

You could take a look on VCoins for "lepton" to see if there's anything you like, but it doesn't look like there's much high grade there right now.

I'd say that most common lepton types that were minted prior to their deaths are likely to be ones that they would have seen around if they handled a decent amount of money (though exactly how monetized the economy was and how often exchanges were made with coins rather than some other exchange among fishermen and carpenters and the like, particularly away from major cities, can be hard to tell). Hoard finds could probably provide more information on exactly which types appeared to be circulating during their lives, but that'll take a bit of research. As for the chances of any specific coin being handled by a historical figure, it's pretty much impossible to tell. It's like asking whether a given penny was handled by JFK.

Edit: Also, am I the only one who feels that a ratty, worthless looking example of a lepton illustrates the story better than a nice one?

 

As far as hoards go, it's been proven leptons and prutah, circulated during Jesus' lifetime even though they were minted a century earlier.

If someone is interested in them, David Hendon periodically sells group lots of them on Ebay. It's rumored he bought a huge hoard of leptons and prutahs, around 200,000 coins. I have bought a few lots of them from him. I probably own about 150 leptons, and a similar amount of prutah. I give them away to religious friends.

 

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=tribute penny