Is this PVC damage/residue?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by fiddlehead, May 26, 2016.

  1. fiddlehead

    fiddlehead Well-Known Member

    On this 1840-O Quarter (PCGS XF40):

    1840 half.jpg 1840 half reverse.jpg
     
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  3. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Highly unlikely, in my opinion. There's a pretty clear hue progression indicating it's actual toning. Lovely coin. :)
     
  4. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Motor City Car Capital

  5. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Wow! Anyone else think this is only an attractive VF?
     
  6. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    Does not look like PVC to me. What @SuperDave said about the progression is correct, and that it's in a PCGS holder are two pretty good clues to me. Maybe a touch overgraded as @Insider mentioned, but a 35 at worst. Maybe a bit of weak strike on the reverse. There's not that big a spread between 35 and 40, and it might be worth paying that little premium for the eye appeal.

    I don't know how well struck these typically come, but this could be a coin worth owning depending on the price and how you fancy it. :)
     
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  7. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    "O" Mint strike is involved here. Nevertheless, IMO, VF-30 w/bump to 35 for color. I learned to grade in the 1967 -73 era. Lots has changed over the years and that's why I could NEVER, EVER be employed at a TPGS. :facepalm::(

    I've heard your other point before from professional TPGS graders. "There is little difference in price between :yack::yack::yack::yack::yack:."

    Problem w/this approach that I like to point out in discussions with an example I can apply using almost any coin: That 1994 SE that you all graded MS-69 in 1994 because at the time it was virtually worthless is now worth $$$$ so eat it! :smuggrin::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:
     
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  8. xCoin-Hoarder'92x

    xCoin-Hoarder'92x Storm Tracker

  9. fiddlehead

    fiddlehead Well-Known Member

    Well, I don't know, but here's a VF35 of the same issue (1840-O no drapery). Looks like a lot more wear to me. 1840 vf35.jpg
     
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  10. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    This coin is more flatly struck (look at the stars) than the OP's coin (too bad you did not post the reverse). I'm still VF on both.

    Want a real eye-popper? Check out the VF's on the PCGS Internet Grading Guide. Now, this is just a guide BUT...

    ...and don't forget that the poor strike took some detail away. I'm taking that into account and IMO neither of these coins IS CLOSE TO XF.

    Thankfully, grading is subjective and no one - least of all the professionals at PCGS - cares what I :bucktooth: think. :yawn::shame:
     
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  11. fiddlehead

    fiddlehead Well-Known Member

    Sorry to dissapoint :) Here's the reverse of the vf35. Yes, as someone said, New Orleans strike!

    1840 vf35 reverse.jpg
     
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  12. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    Nice coin , I like it and the toning .
     
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  13. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

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  14. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    Like the color a lot. And I think it's a flat struck vf. I was at 30-35 as well. I've had many with similar details come back at those grades. And I've had a lot of xf seated coins and they have far more detail. I sold 4 xf 40-45 seateds today actually 2 halves a dime and a half dime and an imo undergraded au 50 dime
     
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  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yes, I'd grade it a 30 - the rev does not measure up to 35.

    And if both coins were over-graded that would make perfect sense. This one, I'd grade 25.
     
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  16. fiddlehead

    fiddlehead Well-Known Member

    Both being over-graded makes sense I'm sure - both PCGS - BTW, The second, dark VF35 has a CAC sticker! Here's a little more info that might be relevant to strike (I find this fascinating - these old New Orleans strike variations!). Here's an ms64 from the PCGS coinfacts page. Looks like a similar strike to the toned xf40 coin I posted - to me it looks like the weakness in the strikes match up (the back of the hair, the shoulder strap, Eagle's right claw, even the lack of detail on the wrist) - I'm wondering - wouldn't that tend to defend the XF grade by indicating less wear and more of a strike issue (or not)?

    1840-O quarter ms64 example.jpg
     
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  17. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    These days, it seems if a coin has a "sniff" of luster around its relief - both dealers and TPGS's grade it XF. :facepalm:
     
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  18. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    This coin is a highly detailed example w/lots of luster under the toning. Unfortunately, while it may be worth MS-64 money to PCGS and its dealers, this is what the "Poster Child" for AU-58 should look like as the coin has SIGNIFICANT loss of luster/rub on its high points.

    Look for "bullseye" wear pattern when one surface is worn, then the highest point of the worn surface receives a little more friction giving the appearance of colored rings of wear.

    BTY, NO one will sell this coin as an AU; yet many oldtimers will not buy it as an Unc. Coins with this amount of rub are usually graded MS-62. In this case, I think the attractiveness upped the grade.

    :oops: Forgot again, this is only my opinion.
     
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  19. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    I can see the coin in the OP as either 35 or 40, but not a "high end" 40. Nice patina, though.
     
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  20. fiddlehead

    fiddlehead Well-Known Member

    Excellent! Is this usually more obvious on silver than gold - or equally applicable?

    I will add that this specific issue, the 1840-O no drapery quarter, was the first seated quarter to be minted in New Orleans. Apparently the obverse has some unique characteristics (narrow or absent denticles?)
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2016
  21. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Useful on all metals. Esp. silver and copper. Easiest to see under florescent light as that removes the glare from the other light sources.

    When you see this "characteristic" it is still a personal choice :bookworm::cigar: as to how much "cabinet friction" :vomit::wacky::rolleyes::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious: you'll tolerate until a coin becomes AU to you. ;)

    The amount tolerated by TPGS's varies from series to series and for different metals (gold is softer than nickel). You may wish to read the introduction to Grading Coin by Photographs by Bowers concerning the AU/MS division. Every collector should have this book and the ANA Grading Guide (7th Edition ONLY).

    I'll post a photo when I come across one with easier to see (larger area) "bullseye."
     
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