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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;krispy, post: 1477379, member: 19065&quot;]Sorry MEC, but you&#039;re initial posts are were you got off on the wrong foot in this thread and subsequent posts you&#039;ve made continue to show your ideas are not well thought out nor supported. So too have your erroneous comments been taken by that other huffy fellow who agreed with your statements outright but couldn&#039;t add any additional support to defend yours nor his own argument when challenged. </p><p><br /></p><p>Again, you gave us this<i>.</i>..</p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><br /></p><p>Paper <i>is</i> made from plant fibers which <i>are</i> related to wood.&nbsp;&nbsp; Okay, so paper is not as rigid as wood as you intended us to visualize, <i>but</i> it is <u>not</u> the <i>ink</i> that causes paper wave, it is improper drying of the paper after it was dampened and printed. When that is not the case, then it is due to humidity in the environment. And it should be easy for you to agree that <u>every</u> note is exposed to the air and the environment prior to it ever being sealed in a holder. Your examples are not working in your favor based on your simplistic and misunderstood reasons concerning this. </p><p><br /></p><p>So, I have been sharing knowledge with you all along. I&#039;m not being a jerk, as you were want to suggest earlier quite out of nowhere. And yet you resist having a discussion because I easily overturn each of your ideas about this. So you resort to calling me &#039;merely wrong&#039; and suggest you have made apparent truths be known without the slightest effort to disprove my comments. Further you suggest I need to grow, as if accepting your inaccurate statements is the answer... please!</p><p><br /></p><p>Certainly, as I have agreed previously, paper has a natural characteristic to take on a wave-like pattern, and notes, as being discussed here, then do not lay flat. It is indeed natural but tolerable to a degree only, in that all paper absorbs moisture from the environment and begins to display what we may call a wave or rippled effect. Paper does this even if properly dried when manufactured or again when dampened and dried after printing. However, what is acceptable in this hobby away from &#039;natural paper way&#039; (let&#039;s say <i>minimal </i>wave as illustrated in the many Heritage listings we looked at in this thread) it is by degrees of eye appeal to the collector as to whether it is acceptable for their collection. So when paper has been improperly dried or improperly stored and that &#039;wave&#039; is exacerbated due to uncontrolled humidity, displaying a heavily rippled look, they are going to have a negative impact on notes&#039; eye appeal and from there, potential value of said note. It&#039;s really not hard to understand this cause and effect, both of paper and later what may happen to value. Grade is entirely a different matter to which there is no contest in this thread.</p><p><br /></p><p>Of course, I agreed with the concensus of this thread about the OP&#039;s note&#039;s grade and accept that natural paper wave doesn&#039;t necessarily affect grade, that being primarily because the TPGs don&#039;t have a measure in place for it, and certainly not when it is minimal and the natural reaction of paper in the environment. Though TPGs will denote a note with environmental issues at some point. The examples so far shown have no such degrading issues that effect grades per their standards. I have also pointed out the error in the other guys statement that gem note collectors <i>desire </i>natural paper wave, hence notes that do not lay flat. That is a real hoot, let me tell you!</p><p><br /></p><p>You also stated, </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>That is certainly a wild assumption you made with no evidence to support it, and one which was resoundingly overturned earlier when I commented on it and what <i>is </i>actually <i>unusual </i>about older gem notes.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Your comments have not imparted knowledge about this topic to this thread, but rather you lack thereof and in successfully attracting someone else who bought what you said hook-line-and-sinker, to which their failing defense was sunk each time they tried to wiggle around this debate.</p><p><br /></p><p>So your attempt now to counter my claim that you are wrong by simply saying I am &#039;merely wrong&#039; is very very weak. I&#039;ve talked about the examples of notes we can see with &#039;natural paper wave&#039; on Heritage. I&#039;ve looked at the link you presented and feel the same way, that natural paper wave is normal and accepted at some level, as repeatedly explained. </p><p><br /></p><p>We are not in need of more example of the phenomena of &#039;natural paper wave&#039; as discussed elsewhere and about different notes reviewed and certified by different companies, let alone for notes which have lived a different life from the one discussed in this thread.&nbsp; I understand paper wave, it&#039;s causes and the results when it occurs, as well as to it&#039;s affect on eye-appeal and potential collector value, despite the grade the note was given. I accept the existence of natural paper wave as a result of exposure to humidity in the environment, and even those notes which do not lay flat, get high grades and sealed (entirely) in certain TPG holders. I argue that severe paper wave, rippling, is exposure to changing humidity and that PCGS holders allow this to continue if not worsen over time, but only when improperly stored by an owner of said note. </p><p><br /></p><p>You said, </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Not true at all. The TPGs grade based on the published standards which do not include aspects of paper wave. TPGs have an understanding of paper and the effects of humidity on paper and why Gem notes do not always lay flat but display a sort of, wave. All paper is susceptible to changes and over time degrade due to air, light, humidity and micro-organisms present around and on them. Just because a TPG decides not to account for something doesn&#039;t lend justice to your argument.</p><p><br /></p><p>Quite right the truth doesn&#039;t require a post count either, but it does illustrate the limited reputations of new members when their posts are reflective of their understanding and accuracy when shown to be in err, which is why I pointed to it in the first place. The advanced post count too can give newer members something to review to judge the quality of posts made on similar topics by the other members. </p><p><br /></p><p>Of course you and the other guy have both drawn your lines and refuse to discuss this and attempt to understand what I am, at length, helping you to understand about materials and environmental factors affecting paper and paper currency. This is beyond what TPGs mention on their labels, and again, is not in doubt of the grades given these notes.</p><p><br /></p><p>I have<i> &quot;come to terms&quot;</i> with taking the time to help correct you and the other fellow about this and likewise, I continue to grow my knowledge regularly, which is why it is easy to school the two of you. I know you have only been into collecting currency for about two years and new comers are always welcome, but you have much to learn as evidenced by your posts in this thread. You might do well also to introduce yourself to the forum sometime so we get an idea of&nbsp; what you are really like, what you like collecting and what you are interested in. Show us some of the notes you have collected and anything related to numismatics that inspires you. </p><p><br /></p><p>So, <i>that&#039;s</i> what I chose. Regards. :thumb:[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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