Is this morgan real or fake?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Kevin Dore, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. Kevin Dore

    Kevin Dore Active Member

    I recently purchased this 1896 o Morgan dollar and there were some aspects of the transaction that set off some red flags for me. I can't spot anything about the actual coin that tells me that it is fake, but I still have my worries so I present it here to ask if anybody can tell me definitively that it is real or fake. I don't mind sharing all aspects of the transaction that worry me, but I'd rather first let you judge only on the appearance of the coin first.

    The diameter and thickness of the coin are right, and the coin weighs in at 26.53 grams. My camera does better with smaller coins and can capture great detail when zoomed in, so if the pictures are not clear enough or you would like closeups of certain areas please let me know. S20180928_0014.jpg S20180928_0013.jpg S20180928_0006.jpg
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  3. Evan8

    Evan8 A Little Off Center

    Fake. They can never get the denticles right. They are uneven and spaced odd. Chinese fake cleaned to cover up the cast surfaces.
    Rick Ross and Kevin Dore like this.
  4. Kevin Dore

    Kevin Dore Active Member

    It amazes me that I could stare at this coin and study it for hours and not be able to tell but I post it here and get an answer immediately. Thank you
    Evan8 likes this.
  5. Kevin Dore

    Kevin Dore Active Member

    I have to say for a fake its a pretty good one, they even got the weight right which from what I understand is the most common thing they get wrong.
    coin0709 likes this.
  6. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    also, the date is 'off'.
    Rick Ross and Kevin Dore like this.
  7. Kevin Dore

    Kevin Dore Active Member

    Ok, well now that I have removed all doubt that I was scammed on this one I will tell the rest of this story. I bought this coin on an ebay auction. The pictures provided on the auction were of an 1892 o Morgan that was well worn. I won the auction for a bid of just $17 which I would have been happy with if I had received the coin pictured, but instead I got this coin here. The kicker was that it took two weeks from the date shipped for the coin to get here, and when it did, that's when I realized the coin was shipped from china. At that point I was 99% sure it was a fake, but when I started to compare it to other Morgans in my possession I could not tell for sure that it was counterfeit.

    At the time of purchase the seller had only a bit over 100 transactions but a rating over 99%. So that didn't really set off any red flags, and the coin was listed as a silver US minted coin, not like other listings I had seen that were obviously replicas. I checked back after receiving the coin and now his rating has dropped to under 90%. Looking at the listing again I now noticed the one thing I should have caught before I purchased the coin. The seller says in the listing to give 10-20 days for the item to arrive once shipped.

    I've put in for a return and requested a full refund. We will see how that goes. If nothing else, it's a valuable lesson that may cost me $17 in the end.
  8. rickmp

    rickmp Frequently flatulent.

    With all of those red flags, you still went through with the transaction?!
  9. Kevin Dore

    Kevin Dore Active Member

    I didn't see the red flags till after I had made the purchase. The auction listing seemed legit. The only thing I could have seen in hindsight is that the seller did say to wait 10-20 days for item to arrive. I missed that when I purchased it. Getting a different coin than the one listed, and having it shipped here from china were facts that I had no way of knowing from the listing.
  10. 1916D10C

    1916D10C Key Date Mercs are Life! 1916-D/1921-D/1921

    You lye Chow Mein and chopstick with that Molgan Dallah?

    So I’m assuming the coin came shipped in a grey bag with Chinese characters on it?

    I’m sorry you got scammed OP. That really sucks, these are the horror stories that scare me when buying from eBay. 10-20 to get a coin? I cant wait that long!! My favorite seller ships so fast I get anything I purchase within 2 days!!
    Charles REid and Kevin Dore like this.
  11. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    If you've looked at a lot of Morgan's over the years, it is pretty easy to spot. Unfortunately, a new collector can read and study, but there is no short cut for looking at coins. Keep with the hobby and things like that will become easier over time
    Randy Abercrombie likes this.
  12. Kevin Dore

    Kevin Dore Active Member

    Yes, $17 worth of Chow Mein would be perfect! Lol!

    No, it came loose in a plain brown padded envelope. Of course there are some Chinese characters at the top of the postage label where it says China Post.

    I'm not really upset. I may still get a refund on it, and if I do I doubt the seller is willing to pay the return postage, so I'll just keep it in a flip with big capital letters spelling FAKE as a reminder to myself. Will serve useful in helping me learn how to spot fakes. So even if I've lost my money, it's an inexpensive life lesson. I've had much more expensive ones in my life time.

    And yes, other coins I've purchased usually arrive in 2-3 days. I wish I had taken the time to read the full description instead of skimming over it before bidding or I would have passed on that alone.
    1916D10C likes this.
  13. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    You are protected 2 ways.
    1. It's a counterfeit.
    2. The item received was not the same one you bid on.
    Either the seller (or Ebay) will have to refund you. You are under no obligation to return the "coin". But if you don't destroy it, etch or write COPY on the coin, or put it in a flip and write COUNTERFEIT on it, so you are not selling a fake coin with the intent to deceive.
  14. Kevin Dore

    Kevin Dore Active Member

    I had the exact same thoughts. My intention at this point is to put it in a flip and write FAKE on it so it will never be confused with a real coin.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
    Michael K likes this.
  15. Kevin Dore

    Kevin Dore Active Member

    Ok, well I got a response from the seller. The auction was won for $12 plus $5 shipping. He is offering me $12 refund. What do you think? Should I cut my losses at only $5? Or push for the full $17 I paid? I'm feeling pretty confident that I can get the entire $17 refunded at this point, or he would not have offered the $12 so quickly without argument. So I'm leaning toward declining the $12 and going for a full refund.

    I know this is a tiny amount of money and I don't care about the $5. It's not like I won't be able to pay a bill that's due or anything. It's more about principle at this point to me.
  16. thejaxcollector

    thejaxcollector Active Member

    I had a somewhat similar experience. Won an auction, and paid promptly via Paypal to seller with NYC address. 2 days later, shipment tracking showed coin coming from China. Immediately called eBay and Paypal and started complaining about seller duplicity and refusal to accept any coin from China. Got full refund, got second fake in the mail (no idea why/how), and first fake came back to me when returned from fraudulent address provided by seller on return shipping label. So now I have 2 free fake Morgan dollars. Caveat emptor!
    Kevin Dore likes this.
  17. frankjg

    frankjg Well-Known Member

    Go for the full $17, you have to, on principle.
    CHARLES ROSENBAUM and Kevin Dore like this.
  18. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    Just report it. eBay, right? Get the full $17.
    CHARLES ROSENBAUM and Kevin Dore like this.
  19. 1916D10C

    1916D10C Key Date Mercs are Life! 1916-D/1921-D/1921

    Somebody is drop shipping knockoffs. Scandalous.
    Kevin Dore likes this.
  20. Kevin Dore

    Kevin Dore Active Member

    That is quite similar. The seller here had a new York address as well, except when I checked tracking it never showed any information as of it had not shipped yet until after the package arrived. Had I seen it being tracked from China I probably would have done the same thing you did. Seems this is possibly the same seller who learned something after he tried to sell to you and somehow was able to hide the tracking info from me until it was to late.
    1916D10C likes this.
  21. Kevin Dore

    Kevin Dore Active Member

    I definitely will. At first I was thinking what is $5 really worth? Honestly not worth my time and hassle. But I need to do this. If I let him keep the shipping charge I'm guessing he'll break even on this transaction. So if I make him refund the full price maybe it will be a little discouragement to try to scan the next guy.
    TheFinn and 1916D10C like this.
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