Is this coin counterfeit or legit??

I'll be darn - guess you'll just have to read the above post!! Now you CAN be 100% sure!! And here I thought you knew damn near everything.

 

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Went unsold.

 

Not at all. The only thing I'm sure about I'm not allowed to post

I'll get back to YOU tomorrow.

 

It's tomorrow!

The pearls on the coin that was taken down from Ebay have the correct count and style. Therefore, I'm very disappointed that one of you making derogatory comments on this thread about me in Post #21 is not informed enough to realize that a cast fake (this is not) and a struck fake made from transfer dies have virtually the identical design details as the genuine coins they are copied from. The poor photo may have caused some confusion.

IMO, no one bid on the coin because it's not original or as many here like to say, "Harshly Cleaned." My guess is ex-jewelry. It even looks like the left field has been repaired. So it looks like we really scared the poor fellow w/the messed up coin on Ebay and he removed it. Way to go. The blind leading the blind.

Finally, as I wrote before...I don't know anyone who authenticates coins from blurred photos so the two "camps" here will just need to disagree w/o ever knowing for sure if the coin is genuine.

See, I can play nice after all

 

How? I've yet to see any definitive proof the coin is indeed fake, only questionable conjecture. Until the gentleman who decided to set off the alarm based upon zero factual evidence, and perhaps an unhealthy dose of paranoia, shares with the board EXACTLY what led the seller to this conclusion, NO ONE can be 100% sure of anything! Looking at "other images on the internet" is absolutely meaningless unless he actually knows what he's doing. "Seller", especially on ebay, is not synonymous with "expert"; the simple fact he removed the listing proves nothing.

I will also say this.... instead of searching for and hoping to find something wrong with a coin, people need to start looking for what is both there and right, especially on examples such as this shown in poor photos and display evidence of likely being messed with. Keeping this in mind, many coins, simply by looking deeper than most, can give you a very good idea of authenticity. If.... IF it is indeed fake, let's just say that the counterfeiter was at least smart enough to use obverse and reverse dies displaying CORRECT anomalies known for the date and mint (seek and ye shall find). Funny how they could get intricate details correct yet supposedly screw up on something so obvious as pearls, isn't it?

 

Four things:
1) I wasn't the OP.
2) @Insider: calling me a blind person leading another blind person isn't "playing nice."
3) @BooksB4Coins: you don't know the full story. I told the seller (who obviously isn't an expert or he wouldn't have asked me to phone him) on the phone that he should take the coin to a local dealer so he could see it in hand. During our second phone conversation, when he had serious doubts himself, I again told him to take it to a local coin dealer that he trusts. Following those two phone conversations I emailed him again, urging him to contact a trusted local coin dealer. If either of you two who have pontificated about my actions want to see both emails I will PM them to you upon your request.
4) I think I went far beyond hollering "fake" by emailing the gentleman instead of reporting the coin to eBay, and phoning him at his request.

Having said this, I do get your points, from both of you, and, other than your judgments based on less than the full story, agree with what you have posted.

Steve

 

Aside the curious condition of the rim - and considering Insider's caveat about making decisions from imperfect images - I don't see a lot to immediately convince me it's a fake. The weakness of the reverse strike is a bit extreme but in an area known to be weakly-struck on this coin. The mint mark is in a known location, if looking a little elongated.

This would have been a perfect case, especially if the seller isn't an expert, to strongly advise him/her to have it looked at by a local dealer with relevant expertise. And look, someone here did so.

 

IMO, it's too bad he pulled the coin. Someone would have bought it below melt. Too bad the poor fellow didn't ask some other folks on this thread to call him.

Now that the harm was done, I'll agree your advice is a good start. However, based on my experience with a majority of local coin dealers set up at shows; most cannot authenticate gold coins EVEN WHEN THEY ARE NOT MESSED UP.

This poor soul is going to have a fine time gathering + & - opinions when a sharp photo would have gone a long way to resolve his question.

 

@Insider: I guess I don't see why it was "too bad he pulled the coin" if someone might have bought it below melt. How would that have been an advantage to the seller? And, I don't particularly appreciate your attitude that he should have called someone else on this forum, implying, of course, that I don't know what I'm talking about. Your are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but I choose to ignore you in the future. Life is too short for shortness. I tried to do the helpful thing. I did not tell him to pull it. You obviously also have a low opinion of LCDs. It's too bad the ones you know are so lacking in knowledge; the ones I deal with are extremely talented.

Steve

 

Oh, @Insider, I encourage you to "Ignore" me if that would be helpful in reducing your stress caused by those of us not as wise/informed as you are.

Steve

 

You don't stress me in the least bit as I enjoy your posts.
However NOW I AM STRESSED: Will someone please tell me what's an LCD???

Do what you wish. When I was growing up we had several busybodies of the female persuasion that would peer out their semi-closed blinds and monitor the world around them in order to make the world a better place. I loved those goodie-two-shoes. Why, old lady Gruno stuck her "helpful" nose into everything. You both are missed.

PS We'll never know what the coin would have sold for...too bad for the owner.

 

Local Coin Dealer

 

We probably have a "different idea" of what a local coin dealer is. Jim Halprin, Tom Hallenbeck, Robert Campbell, Rick Snow, Jeff Garrett, etc., etc. can all be considered LCD's with various size businesses. Obviously, these numismatists have a clue.

Joe Blow, etc., etc. the LCD's I am referring to do not have a clue. Many of them can be seen running up to TPGS's set up at coin shows for opinions: "Is this coin cleaned?" "Is this coin real?" "What does this grade?" "Will this get straight graded?" "Is this worth submitting?" "Is this a mint error?" "Where is the bathroom?" Fortunately, TPGS's have made the majority of these guys successful!

 

Huh, why go to a coin show when you can get them exact questions right here?

 

I VOTE BEST ANSWER!

 

Where *is* the bathroom here, anyways?

 

An UPDATE I wish to share w/members: I must have exaggerated (senior moment) in my quote above. Should have said one hand.
I just spoke with an authenticator who has worked for PCGS, NGC, and ANACS since the late 1970's. He cannot recall seeing hardly any - IF ANY AT ALL cast US gold coins in all those years.

 

I don't think I have seen a cast fake gold coin, either. Casting would most likely be done using the "lost wax" process which is very tedious and time intensive. It also won't produce luster, so best suited for making worn coins, or ancients.
Much more efficient to use transfer dies.

 

You're right, I didn't, but did know enough from your own words to say that you should've kept your opinions to yourself, and for the simple fact you had/have NO real evidence. Again, "seller" and/or "dealer" is not synonymous with "expert", so suggesting the guy take it to some local schmo who may or may not have the faintest clue of what he's doing or talking about, isn't the fix-all answer to the likely non-existent problem.

Please do understand I'm not at all questioning your motives; I know they were noble, but sometimes that's simply not enough. You can say all you wish that you went "far beyond hollering 'fake'" and try to shine a positive light upon your actions because you didn't "report him", but the fact is you had zero reason or right to report the listing, and you essentially did holler fake by setting off an alarm due to an opinion that, at best, was based purely on highly questionable conjecture. If one skips through a theater yelling that there "might be a fire" as opposed to "there is a fire", does that make it okay?

 

@BooksB4Coins, thank you for your input. You may well be correct. I appreciate the respectful way in which you have presented your opinions.

Steve