Is This A Jeweler's Mark?

Interesting thread. Has anyone collecting these seen one that looks like the letter S spanning the upper and lower sashes of a double-hung window? Someone posted what I think is a George II halfpenny on a Facebook group within the past week with such a counterstamp. I'll probably never find the picture again, because that's just the way Facebook works, although I did comment on it, so it might be possible.

Edit: I actually found it.

 

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It may also be another Large cent, thought head is a little high. But there were numerous examples of off strike coins with these early issues.

 

That's interesting, messydesk. I haven't seen it before but my first impreession was it's an "SH". Some type of identifying mark for a product or manufacturer i'm sure. The difference here is it has a straight-edge depression and not a saw-toothed one.

Bruce

 

Here's a couple of British cartwheels with primative stamps. The "W" also shows the center x-shape.

I've been investigating these a bit since this thread started but haven't come across anything that would tell us who made them. I'll have to contact a couple of my counterstamp buddies and see what they think.

Bruce

 

It has the general impression of a Liberty Cap 1793-1796. If it is a thin planchet, it would have a plain edge and weight ~ 168 grains (1795-1796.) If it were a thick edge, it would weigh ~ 208 grains and have a lettered edge (ONE HUNDRED FOR A DOLLAR ~) (1793-1795.)

But it would definitely be off center and high.

 

Once again, it does not appear that they ever crossed the M and this shows both letters on the same coin.

That leaves the question about why the centered period before the first letter on my coin.

I do wonder if they kept records of early brands like I know they did later.

 

Here's one on a real unusual coin, one you never see with a counterstamp ... 1787Fugio Cent.

Bruce

 

There are some records of English maker's marks, especially cutler's marks, but not any for this kind of counterstamp that I know of.

Bruce

 

It's interesting that I've been watching "Forged In Fire" on the history channel.

I've been thinking about the process used to produce these counterstamps. A blacksmith could create a die, inscribe the die, then harden it to produce an incused die stamp. A Standard Stamp would probably involve an extra step with a hardened incused die being used to produce a Standard die since that would be much easier than removing material around the image, though either could be done.

One problem in looking at these stamps is that they are often not aligned with the coin's surface or have a solid support leaving part of the image weak.

 

As luck would have it, I found another Incused stamp example struck on a 1798 S-161.


The AP or AY is raised while extended with Graffiti which is incused. It is crude, but the strokes of the A cross.

It also raised the image without showing much disturbance in depressing the design around the image which is a bit of a head scratcher.

 

I'm a little confused about your description, Marshall. You're saying that the letters are raised but don't appear to be in a depression of any sort? All I can make out from the picture are the raised initials "AP" but on a flat surface...no depression surrounding it.

Often on counterstamps that are imaged on a scanner rather than with a camera the incuse stamp appears raised because of the lighting. It's just a trick of the eye and may be the case on this one. This is the reason I never use a scanner for imaging counterstamps.

Bruce

 

That image literally gave me a visceral reaction, and it weren't a good one . . . . .

Z

 

This is the way knife cuts appear. The metal raised from the cut eventually wears a little and covers the cut.

 

I'll let you know when it arrives. I've been fooled before on a scratch that looked like a new die break.

 

My gut reaction was a possible hacienda token from Mexico. Sure is a fun piece.

 

So we'll be seeing it some time this summer then? Well, the mail isn't that slow.

Bruce

 

It takes a week to get out of California or Washington St., but once it reaches Texas it's pretty quick. It's in Seattle right now.

The 1796 NC-2 (R7) I found took a week in the Greater LA area. When it finally made it to Texas, it took less than 12 hours to get through Dallas, Beaumont, Orange and to my mailbox. I'm waiting impatiently to find out if it's the tenth or eleventh known, depending on whether the Bird specimen in Noyes is a wrong photo or a wrong attribution.