Is it really possible that only PCGS and NGC get it right?

Yep, and it is great to hear from a dealer who knows the coin market. Most of the gold coins in MS-62 slabs are "Market" graded AU's. Pick up a $5 gold coin and the grading BEGINS at MS-62 if has acceptable eye-appeal, no major damage, and lots of mint luster. MS-60's hardly exist anymore. 61's are also scarce but lustrous, unattractive (perhaps baggy) sliders.

 

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I vaugly remember reading about it somewhere

 

Me too, probably in a Bowers book.

 

That sure is a pretty penny !

 

"Bottom line people? Learn to grade and get a second set of eyes to back you up. Can't go wrong there......"

Couldn't agree more with this statement.

Today's collectors have been conditioned to believe only the "top two" get it right. The games that were played by ANACS and ICG didn't help things, either (the current ICG used to be ANACS and vice versa.) And ICG hurt their credibility by grading too many coins MS70 and proof 70 right out of the gate back in the days of the printed "Teletrade" catalogs.

 

When you start a grading service, some might want the reputation of grading higher to appeal to collectors who want to sell and make more money of novices. Technical standards should be standardized for all grading services. Finish, tone, etc. should be only a small part of the total grade. Scratches, bag marks, etc. can be included in the technical part when standards are agreed upon. Laser scanning could be a tool to use at some time.

 

We don't have many years to learn to grade and then when we send these graded coins to be "professional graded", they come back different. Going to be hard for your heirs to sell your personally graded coins.

 

When you sell on Ebay, you find out what your coins are worth, what someone is willing to pay for them.

 

Wasn't that why grading services started, to null the opinions of individuals? Everyone has an opinion. Where does opinion and fact have a crossing line? I don't want to spend a lot of money on one's person opinion.

 

Mainebill said: ↑
Agree. I think lately ngc is better then pcgs. But they both screw up. I've seen plenty of bad problem over graded or just crappy coins in both holders
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Wasn't that why grading services started, to null the opinions of individuals? Everyone has an opinion. Where does opinion and fact have a crossing line? I don't want to spend a lot of money on one's person opinion.

First of all, be careful when you accuse the grading services of making ALL these errors...based on what? Your standards? The TPGS are mostly correct OR a correction is made by a resubmit or review. In the case (in millions of coins) where they have made an error in grade (by the opinion of several major dealers, market players, and excellent, informed collectors - many post here) what you say is true...they both screw up.

Yes, everyone has an opinion, even the newbie that graded an MS-63 coin VF last week; BUT the end opinion of several TPG's, the finalizer, and a quality control TPG is usually more valid than my or your opinion (when we don't agree on the assigned grade) as judged by the coin market (which the TPGS help to support and even possibly control in some ways).

 

You took my post totally out of context. It was related to third party services and to the fact that they don't always get it right. You have to be able to grade coins yourself and not just blindly follow what a TPG'er has on it's label. I've picked up some gems by not always agreeing with what is stamped on the label.

 

How can you know in a new coin like the $1 LBJ Reverse, what grading criteria NGC will use in grading this coin? We are not told what are the differences that make a 70 or a 69 grade.

 

First off, unless it is a satin strike in a set made for collectors, you will not need to worry about those two grades. Read the ANA grading Guide. The is a section at the begging of Morgan dollars that gives so useful information about those two grades. My personal MS-70 matches the book. Many, many coins graded MS-70 do not!

 

I don't holder moderns........I don't drink the kool aid when it comes to the 'first strike', hair splitting Tom foolery.

 

I agree with green 18. I used to respect the grading service's but, now they seem to care about money, money, money. Every time we turn around they are putting some new designation on their holders and charging more to do so. I don't send coins in for grading. I let some other fool do that and spend the submission costs. I do have modern slabs but because I like the coin, not the holder.

 

The TPGs are businesses, and as with every business, they exist to make money. It's been this way since day one, but what worked then, for a variety of reasons, doesn't necessarily work now; to stay in business and contiue to generate profit, they've had to expand and adjust, be it gimmicks or their very standards. Of course it's about money... always has been and always will be.

I've never quite understood the notion that they exist for collector benefit, or that they're the collector's buddy; a hobby-related business is still, at its heart, a business... no one thinks of Wal-Mart that way, so why TPGs?

 

So totally not true.

 

This looks like it is becoming a hobby of old men. When I go to a coin show, that is 99% what I see. The shows are getting smaller too. Seems like most of the coins are ungraded. Everybody thinks they are better graders than the services. The grading is supposed to take some of these "one" opinions out of collecting. If the coin price books were quoting one price for a 60 or a 65, it wouldn't make a difference, but the price does.

 

Whatever. I'm not the "expert." You certainly know more about it than I do and I am learning a lot from your posts.

 

I don't think I know much about anything. Read all the posts to gather a wealth of knowledge.