Is it really possible that only PCGS and NGC get it right?

I thought it was 2 and then off to a finalizer and the finalizer looked at the coin after it was slabbed.

Regardless, it's rarely ever the same two graders that see the coin upon resubmission as both PCGS and NGC have huge staff's of graders. I expect 8 or more for the various levels of liability.

Yes, I said "liability" simply because giving a market guarantee on a $100,000 coin is a whole lot different than offering that same guarantee on an MS70 Silver Eagle or an MS66 Kennedy Half Dollar.

Different graders, different skill levels, different responsibilities.

 

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I guess photographs were the wrong term. There is another thread that talks about laser scanning. But that's how it would work, you would need thousands of samples in all ranges of grades that have already been graded. The computer would then be able to reference the thousands of coins (or even millions) and come up with a number. The initial investment would be HUGE, but it would be more accurate ONLY in terms of surface preservation than a human.

 

don't forget the ugly blue and yellow slabs they use, too bad they couldn't get back to that small white slab.

 

I actually liked the blue label.
The screaming yellow is something I wish they would change.

 

I'm really not bored! I learned how to put this in while everyone was watching football or eating..Things were very quiet here

Interesting opinion. I thought the resolution of digital cameras/phones was getting better (more pixels) w/ each passing year.

 

Says who? It was revolutionary. Many dealers didn't like it because it took the mystery and their "edge" away.

 

Insider said: ↑
Ever see how many dealers try to by PCGS "rattlers?" Almost a guaranteed up-grade.
Click to expand...
You had me right up to that last statement.

Don't you believe that? Where have you been all these years.

 

It's not just pixels, it's about the quality of the sensor, size of the pixels, and bit depth of the processing. But yes, it has gotten better to the point no one has a point and shoot anymore, they just use their phone.

 

Nope. Finalizer looks at the grade opinions and puts in the final grade. After the coin is slabbed, it is checked by quality control TPG WHO DO NOTHING BUT THAT I have heard.

 

Yikes! Now that I chose a "mood" I cannot go back to a "no entry blank".

 

PCGS has been building that database for 25 years now. I've no doubt they could go live with computer grading tomorrow....if not for the pesky fact that grading is subjective for a reason.

 

James,

In a blind test done many moons ago where the same coins were graded by several grading services, I believe ICG came out on top and advertised the fact. Since then TPG have come and gone at all the services. Nevertheless, NGC (my favorite) and PCGS have the biggest share of the market because their large dealer base "bids" their coins up higher than the bottom two. In real life all the 4 major services grade the same in most cases. However, the exact same coin in a PCGS slab generally brings more $ than in an NGC holder, than in an ICG holder on down. Each collector has a favorite service while dealers like to switch around more between #1 & #2.

As far as I know, none of the big 4 uses the ANA standards exactly as printed. Grading standards have changed (loosened) and many of the photos in that book are too strict compared to market grading as practiced today.

 

No they don't. Hence the conundrum........

 

From what I have seen - Pure BS. Not 2-3 points. 1-2 perhaps if the coin is a "liner." That's the trouble with liberal standards. One day the coin is graded AU due to a little wear; the next time it is graded Unc something w/cabinet friction. I've seen this happen at coin club meetings. I even read about an FTC case of over-grading long ago where professional dealers were asked to grade a $20 Saint. The grade opinions ranged from AU-58 to MS-65. Imagine how the Judge ruled on that case...LOL. PCGS and NGC were not even around back then.

 

Citation.......

 

I read that article. He praised Dave Bowers for putting those words into print in the introduction of Grading Coins by Photographs.

 

Easy brother. Better to the morrow.

 

From what I hear, it happens all the time at the AU/Unc line; but no TPG is going to keep his job grading vintage coins long if he cannot tell a 62 from a 64 - they'll probably move him to the "kitty table" grading silver eagles . Liners between any MS grade can be tough but the services walk a tight line trying to pleas everyone and be fair to the coin. The finalizer has the last word - he sees both grades. The TPG are on their way to the next box.

 

You can say that again. One great example: The unique 70-S Seated half dime is an AU coin, was auctioned upon its discovery as an AU and now is graded MS (62 or 63?). I sure would grade it higher still just to get it in my (non-existent) company slab.

 

Can't at the moment. It has been written about before by Dave Bowers and Fazzari (one of the expert witnesses who graded the coin AU). The case was against a Boiler-Room dealer in Minneapolis, Minnesota in the mid 1980's.