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Is it illegal to UNknowingly sell a counterfeit?
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<p>[QUOTE="John Burgess, post: 4867558, member: 105098"]Another way to look at this. Had YOU gone into his shop, bought a gold coin in a slab, took it home, cracked it out then returned and told him it's fake and showed him a loose coin, he'd tell you that you bought it, all sales are final, and since you opened it, he especially can't take it back and to get bent.</p><p><br /></p><p>If he were to sell you a fake, he's going to demand it still be in whatever packaging he gave it to you in, and for you to prove it's not genuine before anything, and still, I don't think he's going to give you your money back and claim "how do I know you didn't switch it out, it was real when it left here, I've been doing this for 20 years kid, I know real from fake!".</p><p><br /></p><p>Even in a 2x2 that's stapled with a dealers markings, if the coin has been removed, the buyer has no recourse if it's fake in court, the dealer will claim it's real and you must have tampered with it after purchase and that's why it's not in the 2x2 he sold it to you in. and the court will agree. it's a "more likely to happen" based on the sides of the story bar to meet in a civil case and he's the professional/expert. Also likely why he's not pursuing it criminally, it's because he knows he messed up every step of the way as a buyer, did everything wrong and didn't protect himself. if he doubted it, he should have refused to buy it, if he doubted it after buying it, he shouldn't have removed it from the holder.</p><p><br /></p><p>He should not have opened the slab. it's his now and the law/court would be on your side. he took possession of it in a slab guaranteeing it's authenticity. He removed it from that slab and claims it's fake, anything could have happened with it since he's removed it.</p><p><br /></p><p>he's coming at you now because it's the only thing he really can do in my opinion, you sold him a (I think by your description) a NGC graded coin in a slab, he's coming at you with a loose ungraded coin. for all you know he mixed up two coins at his shop after cracking yours out to compare with one he had and is confused and the one he already had was the counterfeit and he's trying to pin it on your coin now to not eat the loss, intentionally, or unintentionally, and he just thinks that's how it went. </p><p><br /></p><p>If he had doubts on it being genuine the responsibility was on him to check it and prove authenticity before purchasing it or refuse to purchase it if he couldn't, his next mistake was cracking it out of the slab destroying whatever provenance the slab gives it.</p><p>"buyer beware" is a really old, but true saying.</p><p><br /></p><p>Demand payment in full, and if he won't pay, sue him in small claims court to get paid if it's within the limits of a small claims case. take him on Judge Judy. LOL. He should not have opened the slab, and he should not have bought it if there was any doubt in his mind about it. Simple as that. he's the professional, he's supposed to know what he's doing.</p><p>if a pawn shop pays $1,000 for a fake painting that's worth $10.00 they don't get to withhold the payment or stop payment. they get to eat the loss they are supposed to know what they are doing and refuse to buy it if they aren't sure about it.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="John Burgess, post: 4867558, member: 105098"]Another way to look at this. Had YOU gone into his shop, bought a gold coin in a slab, took it home, cracked it out then returned and told him it's fake and showed him a loose coin, he'd tell you that you bought it, all sales are final, and since you opened it, he especially can't take it back and to get bent. If he were to sell you a fake, he's going to demand it still be in whatever packaging he gave it to you in, and for you to prove it's not genuine before anything, and still, I don't think he's going to give you your money back and claim "how do I know you didn't switch it out, it was real when it left here, I've been doing this for 20 years kid, I know real from fake!". Even in a 2x2 that's stapled with a dealers markings, if the coin has been removed, the buyer has no recourse if it's fake in court, the dealer will claim it's real and you must have tampered with it after purchase and that's why it's not in the 2x2 he sold it to you in. and the court will agree. it's a "more likely to happen" based on the sides of the story bar to meet in a civil case and he's the professional/expert. Also likely why he's not pursuing it criminally, it's because he knows he messed up every step of the way as a buyer, did everything wrong and didn't protect himself. if he doubted it, he should have refused to buy it, if he doubted it after buying it, he shouldn't have removed it from the holder. He should not have opened the slab. it's his now and the law/court would be on your side. he took possession of it in a slab guaranteeing it's authenticity. He removed it from that slab and claims it's fake, anything could have happened with it since he's removed it. he's coming at you now because it's the only thing he really can do in my opinion, you sold him a (I think by your description) a NGC graded coin in a slab, he's coming at you with a loose ungraded coin. for all you know he mixed up two coins at his shop after cracking yours out to compare with one he had and is confused and the one he already had was the counterfeit and he's trying to pin it on your coin now to not eat the loss, intentionally, or unintentionally, and he just thinks that's how it went. If he had doubts on it being genuine the responsibility was on him to check it and prove authenticity before purchasing it or refuse to purchase it if he couldn't, his next mistake was cracking it out of the slab destroying whatever provenance the slab gives it. "buyer beware" is a really old, but true saying. Demand payment in full, and if he won't pay, sue him in small claims court to get paid if it's within the limits of a small claims case. take him on Judge Judy. LOL. He should not have opened the slab, and he should not have bought it if there was any doubt in his mind about it. Simple as that. he's the professional, he's supposed to know what he's doing. if a pawn shop pays $1,000 for a fake painting that's worth $10.00 they don't get to withhold the payment or stop payment. they get to eat the loss they are supposed to know what they are doing and refuse to buy it if they aren't sure about it.[/QUOTE]
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