Is it illegal to UNknowingly sell a counterfeit?

Hey guys, I'm new here and fairly new to coin collecting and selling. I've been buying a lot of coins at auctions and recently bought a '55 double die for $600. It looked good to me but after posting it on eBay I got messages from two different people saying it was a fake. My question is, do I have any rights to attempt to get my money back from the auctioneer? Everyone knows that auctions are 'you bought it, you own it' but does that apply here being that it might actually be illegal?
I'll post some pictures of the penny to also get anyone's opinion that wishes to help with it's authenticity. Thanks a lot guys and gals!

 

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Here are the pictures

 

Is it illegal to unknowingly run a red light?

 

how long ago did you buy it?

you may have recourse thru paypal

also, 100% guaranteed fake


side note: if the price seems too good

 

sorry looks fake to me, but don't know any legal advice have you read the terms and conditions on that?

 

You absolutely have the right to go back against the person who fraudulently sold you that coin as genuine. Will you have any luck doing so? I have no idea. It would help to know where you bought it, how long ago, and what sort of documentation you have of the purchase.

If you buy something like this on eBay, Buyer Protection will make you whole, but it does have time limits.

PayPal announced last year that they were extending the window for filing a dispute to 180 days, but their own policy page still says 45 days. I'm not sure which is correct.

 

A counterfeit coin sold not being described as a counterfeit is fraud. You have an absolute right to demand a refund from the seller. If the seller was an auctioneer it might be harder, but I would still feel he had a due diligence to research if the coin was fake or not. I most definitely bring it back to the auctioneer.

The harder part, though, is how do you PROVE its a fake? You might have to send it in to a TPG to get documentation its fake.

 

There's also the issue of proving that it's the same coin that was sold. If it was an online auction with good images, that may be possible; for a brick-and-mortar auction without a catalog or other photographic documentation, I have no idea how such things are done.

 

Good point.

 

A few months ago I bought a couple coins from a local auctioneer that turned out to be fakes. I brought them to two coin shops which said they were fake and gave me their business cards. I also posted them here for opinions.

When I returned them I just referenced the business cards and a conversation with one dealer about legalities concerning counterfeits. I showed the overwhelming assessment from CT members. I explained that if it was listed as fake I would have been interested at a different price than if I thought they were real, and that if I were the consignor I'd be upset that they sold for a fraction of a fraction of their worth.

I had even come in to inspect prior to auction end but was not knowledgeable enough to discern they were fake.

The auctioneer remembered me inspecting everything, and it was less than a week after the pick up so they took them back, gave a refund and promised to talk to the seller because they didn't want to become known for selling fakes. They cited the as-is where-is policy but went on to say that it didn't apply.

I had done all I could in coming to inspect prior, and I've been a repeat customer for many years. (Your bidder number is simply like a registration count with their firm and while the newest participants have numbers that are 150k+ my bidder number is in the low 3000's.)

Be honest and apologetic. It's not the fault of the auctioneer. It's the fault of the consignor. It was the first return I'd ever made.

 

Good point about the as is/where is aspect. Listen, when I say an auctioneer or seller has an absolute responsibility to accept returns, I am ONLY talking about fakes. All other issues they are perfectly in the right to refuse to accept returns. If a coin has hairlines, is cleaned, is damage, etc etc it is the buyers responsibility to check out in advance. My bright line here is a fake coin is not a coin at all, so in that regard a fake falls outside their normal rights to refuse to accept returns.

 

Fraud is a crime of intent. If they don't know what they're selling, it can't be considered fraud on the seller's end.

 

In my case the auctioneer said that not only did the consignor swear up and down that the coins were real, but there was also a "dealer" of some sort that confirmed this.

They still did the return.

 

100% Fake

 

As others had said, it really depends where you bought it and how long ago. Lets say it was a garage sale, thats going to be a harder situation than if it was at a coin shop or auction house.

 

That is about as fake as a coin can get. Get a refund if you can, I would not pay face value for that coin.

 

easy to prove its favke ave yout local coin shop review the coin and produce an denoucing lettter im sure they'd do it for you inorder to get your money back for free.

 

easy to prove its favke ave yout local coin shop review the coin and produce an denoucing lettter im sure they'd do it for you inorder to get your money back for free.

 

The auction house has to be able to pass legal title to you in order for the sale to be final. You can not pass good title on a counterfeit. If the auction house refuses to accept the return let him know you will file a complaint with the state licensing board that they are selling counterfeits. The state will yank his license for that. He should become much more agreeable. And technically under the revised Hobby Protection Act selling a counterfeit/unmarked copy is illegal.

(b) COINS AND OTHER NUMISMATIC ITEMS.—The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce, or the sale in commerce of any imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently marked “copy”, is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act.

 

In my opinion, this was partly YOUR fault, though you should probably receive a refund. First of all, don't buy a $600 coin if you can't tell a blatantly obvious fake from a real coin struck by the US mint. The 1955 DDO is probably one of the most faked coins there is. If you can't get a refund, take the loss and acknowledge that you have made a mistake, and most of us have probably done this at some point. Just my Opinion.

-Andrew