Is ICG really as bad as many people say?

The graders spend 10 seconds tops on each coin on average. Adding 30 seconds to that would quadruple the turnaround time.

 

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Wow! Seriously? I am still learning but Jeez, sending coins in is sounding more and more like something I don't want to mess with.

 

Good call. I don’t like messing with it either.

 

So many people would just argue with it anyway.

 

I observe this VERY frequently in my area. My theory it comes from my "peeps"' very well deserved reputations being penny wise and pound foolish. They look at grading fees FIRST and choose the cheapest one, not thinking of the tail end. I see four-figure coins virtually every week either raw or in junk slabs. These people are either just too cheap to turn to the Top 2, or they are relics of when both only took submissions through dealers and no one in this neck of the woods trusts any dealer to not swap out their coin and send an inferior one. My neighbors TRUST ABSOLUTELY NO ONE. They are up to their necks in conspiracy theories.

 

I take it with me every time I give my talk on TPG firms to prove that there are no absolute truths, just trends.

 

This has been answered above. Do you know how long it takes to write a note? I do because we do a lot of that. To me, it's better than crapping up a "details" label with this nonsense to make sure the customer knows the reason: "Scratch across eagle's wing." I'm continuously amazed at what many folks cannot see. We are able to do that because I'm not grading 800 vintage coins a day! Heck, you cannot even talk to a PCGS or NGC grader!

News flash. Most customer service folks don't make big money. The graders make the company profits. They need to be producing income, not answering questions!

News flash. The top two TPGS are not interested in you. They fry bigger fish. We all like to think we are important. We're not. Imagine 200 + customer packages (much more on Mondays)...Then imagine 20 of those folks calling "Did you get my coins?" Add to that the 300 + calls about coins already "in-house" plus the calls from folks with a question after receiving their coins. A top TPGS would rather have 30 huge customers that send several hundred coins at a time.

If you want personal attention, go somewhere else.

 

I've seen a lot of nice coins in ICG holders that I wouldn't hesitate to buy if that's what I was looking for.

 

I’ve also seen some nice coins in ICG holders. But they’ve never really been a coin I was looking for.

 

Tell me about it. I’m into my third month of waiting on PCGS to conserve and slab a coin.

 

As part of a long term comparative study, I've been removing large lots of >$1500 valued coins from one of the top 2 TPG and submitting to their "peer". All coins submitted to NGC are sent to NCS first, as I'm frustrated with "surprises" (i.e. cleaned, etc.) from these firms, with a request to not forward if a "condition" is found. Previous lots were forwarded from NCS to receive a "condition" graded coin. The last lot had a previously straight grade MS62 Coronet Double Eagle returned Unc. Details, Scratch. Another MS66 fb micro S dime returned MS65 S, taking 3 submissions of NCS to NGC before recognizing the micro S, but never the completely separated "full bands".

The current lot has so far been in process a ~month longer than normal, with no return in sight.

I believe it really doesn't matter to whom you ask for grade certification, they all have "problems", as stated by others in this thread.

I believe there's less accuracy than the grading study exposed by Coin World in their May 26, 2003 edition.

The book "United States Large Cents" author says it best of "sellers": "You never agree on grade", but we agreed the coin graded $100. It's perceived that "Dealers" really don't care about accuracy of grade, as "Buyers" prefer accuracy, but both are concerned about relative pricing.

JMHO

 

Wow. As prone to contact marks as most classic gold is, I imagine that the line between okay straight grades and "problem" can get pretty subjective, eh?

 

Obviously.

But they don't have time to circle 6 o'clock on a diagram and check a box next to scratch (or whatever applies)? Maybe a more detailed evaluation of the condition could even be a premium service add-on.

Look, the customer is paying for a service and they have a fundamental right to know about the service they are getting. Your views here are surprisingly short-sighted. Take a look at PCGS for example, they have a major customer service perception problem. It has for certain cost them business at a time when they need to be working on ways of expanding market share and penetrating into new markets. It's tough to quantify the hit to their bottom line, but it may be significant when compared to the relatively minor cost of providing better customer service.

I know for a fact that my LCS switched the TPG they use from PCGS to NGC due to the difference in customer service, and they are a bulk submitter. Also, when I was deciding whether to go with NGC or PCGS for my personal membership (I submit a couple hundred coins a year), the difference in general customer service perception was definitely a factor in my decision to go with NGC.

If a TPG doesn't want to provide good customer service to smaller submitters, they can always change their business model to only accept bulk or high value submissions. Short of doing that, good customer service is worth the investment.

 

I've definitely seen that as well and sometimes all you can do is shake your head at it. I actually like ICG in quite a few areas, but there's certain segments where you're just really hurting yourself not using the top 2. A huge seller may be able to get top dollar without them on certain things, but the average person or auction will leave a lot more than the grading fees on the table with high end coins.

Several years ago it wasn't very good as a few bad apples weren't that pleasant to deal with, granted they also get crazy calls all day so it's fairly understandable. That said over the last couple years its light years ahead of what it used to be

 

NO, their reputation isn't the result of marketing, it is the result of being the best coin grading company for decades.

 

Are they really better than NGC? Are the premiums over NGC slabs proportional to the increase in quality? From my experience, the answer to both questions is no. So, therefore, the reason for the premium over NGC is simply marketing.

 

I "follow" my NGC submissions' status on their website, and I have been pleasantly surprised by their service. That said, I HAVE upgraded to the middle tier membership from the lower. That might matter; it might not.

 

Marketing or merely prevailing opinion. Either way, est quod est.

 

For series like Morgans, they are comparable, but for many series they are much more selective at the premium gem level. They require a much higher standard for luster and as a result, the coins are superior and command much higher prices. It isn't simply marketing, no matter what you would like to believe.

 

This old thread popped up as a recent alert. I read through it looking for anything new. Cannot find anything, however...I'm afraid that this poster may have a closed mind concerning "The Best."

@Lehigh96, posted: "When I ask him to prove that PCGS straight grades cleaned coins more often than ANACS, saying that ALL TPGS do it doesn't not end the debate. Keep in mind that I agree that cleaned coins get through all TPGs, but IMO, dipping is cleaning. The key word is "harshly" and the interpretation of that word is subjective.

There is NOT ONE major TPGS that puts anything even resembling "HARSHLY ANYTHING" in a slab - UNLESS they had a very good reason (??) such as the Seated half straight graded in a PCGS slab with a long and obvious scratch in the left obverse field discussed on one of the major forums.

Lehigh96, posted: "I will go with the scoreboard, the one that drives the highest prices for the grade has the best reputation, and is therefore, the best [] grading company. If you are selling coins, it seems very quantifiable to me."

The reason PCGS slabs bring the most money has been discussed so much that it makes me ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Big Clue: It is not their grading.
Hummm, on second thought...