Is ICG really as bad as many people say?

If you think the question is not worth answering because it carries the implication that the people who work at both ICG and ANACS are not as knowledgeable as those at NGC and PCGS, you have again missed the point.

I have told you several times that technical knowledge isn't enough to vault your grading company into the top tier. And you can't complain that the reason why NGC & PCGS are in that top tier is all related to marketing and then tell me that your company doesn't engage in said marketing. This isn't 1986, every company needs to exhaust every avenue to reach potential customers. People spend over 2 hours per day on social media (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tik-Tok etc). So if your company doesn't have a robust social media program, then you have already lost. So lets look at the Twitter profiles of each of the big four by listing twitter follower count and total tweets.

PCGS: 11.2K followers--6389 Tweets
NGC: 8.2K followers--3738 Tweets
ICG: 1.2K followers--243 Tweets
ANACS: 351 followers--517 Tweets

I have asked you who your superstar is at your company several times. I follow all four major grading companies on Twitter. From time to time, the President (superstar) of the top 2 will tweet something and it will often have a photo of that superstar in the tweet. Because of that, I know who they are, and what they look like.

Why don't I know who the President (superstar) of ICG and ANACS are? That is your company's fault, not mine. You have the opportunity to speak directly to me and every other follower simply by increasing your activity level on the social media platforms, but you don't do it. Earlier in this thread you all but laughed at me for promoting the idea of a "superstar" to run your company. Perhaps instead of scoffing at me, you can view me as a potential customer, and try to understand why I view your company as a second tier grading company, despite the grading acumen of you and your coworkers.

PCGS isn't better than ICG just because they have better marketing, it is because they have better marketing and a better product.

PCGS has a registry, ICG doesn't!
PCGS has the best holder in business (durability, stacking, aesthetics)
PCGS has the best security and anti counterfeiting technology
PCGS provides the best photos
PCGS has the best website
PCGS has a price guide
PCGS has graded the most coins

There is more to being a good grading company than grading coins, and PCGS is clearly the top grading company. Keep in mind that I am an NGC guy who is admitting this. I prefer NGC holders, I think their grading is more consistent, I prefer the NGC registry, but there are clearly areas where PCGS beats NGC just like they beat ICG and ANACS.

 

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I think this is 100% on point. The difference between the top tier (PCGS and NGC) and the second tier (ANACS and ICG) isn't grading...it's marketing. It's brand recognition and that is tied (far or not) to liquidity of the product.

 

Lehigh96, posted: "If you think the question is not worth answering because it carries the implication that the people who work at both ICG and ANACS are not as knowledgeable as those at NGC and PCGS, you have again missed the point."

Not at all, as a young man, your use of the English language is very clear. Your question was not worth answering at the time BECAUESE as I wrote - CAC is not a TPGS and DH is no longer at PCGS. Any other "superstar" at that company was let go. They do have a "superstar" consultant for error coins. The ONLY "superstar" at a TPGS by your definition is the owner of NGC. Unfortunately, that companies "Superstar" does not see every coin.

I have told you several times that technical knowledge isn't enough to vault your grading company into the top tier. And you can't complain [ Note to all: I have not complained about anything! I'm not obsessed with someone's rating opinion of any TPGS- each of us has one.] that the reason why NGC & PCGS are in that top tier is all related to marketing and then tell me that your company doesn't engage in said marketing. [Yikes! I didn't even know we have Twitter. Do we have a Facebook also?] This isn't 1986, every company needs to exhaust every avenue to reach potential customers. People spend over 2 hours per day on social media (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tik-Tok etc). So if your company doesn't have a robust social media program, then you have already lost. [Lost what, customers? You may not be as informed as you think. See my answer to market share below.] So lets look at the Twitter profiles of each of the big four by listing twitter follower count and total tweets.

PCGS: 11.2K followers--6389 Tweets
NGC: 8.2K followers--3738 Tweets
ICG: 1.2K followers--243 Tweets
ANACS: 351 followers--517 Tweets

I have asked you who your superstar is at your company several times. I follow all four major grading companies on Twitter. From time to time, the President (superstar) of the top 2 will tweet something and it will often have a photo of that superstar in the tweet. Because of that, I know who they are, and what they look like.

Why don't I know who the President (superstar) of ICG and ANACS are? [??] That is your company's fault, not mine. [Oh my, do mean our non-superstars are not "twerps" because they don't tweet. We cluck? Do you realize that we are posting in a chat room that most "clucks" have never heard of and what we post is of very little significance to most tweeting folks?] You have the opportunity to speak directly to me and every other follower simply by increasing your activity level on the social media platforms, but you don't do it. [I'm just a little cluck. I don't even know what a tweet is and I don't intend to find out. Posting with you and others here is my contribution to the "smoke."] Earlier in this thread you all but laughed at me for promoting the idea of a "superstar" to run your company. Perhaps instead of scoffing at me, you can view me as a potential customer, and try to understand why I view your company as a second tier grading company, despite the grading acumen of you and your coworkers. [I appreciate your concern; however, I'm a realist. There are reasons, several of which you have mentioned, why ICG is in the position it is. I am glad I don't work in the PCGS/NGC "sweat mills!" When I worked at NGC (in NJ), it was a different company. I looked forward to walking in the office every day. I cannot fully explain that thrill to someone who has not lived it. Now, at ICG I have the same feeling of enjoyment as I had then.]

PCGS isn't better than ICG just because they have better marketing, it is because they have better marketing and a better product.

PCGS has a registry, ICG doesn't!
PCGS has the best holder in business (durability, stacking, aesthetics)
PCGS has the best security and anti counterfeiting technology
PCGS provides the best photos
PCGS has the best website
PCGS has a price guide
PCGS has graded the most coins

There is more to being a good grading company than grading coins, and PCGS is clearly the top grading company. Keep in mind that I am an NGC guy who is admitting this. I prefer NGC holders, I think their grading is more consistent, I prefer the NGC registry, but there are clearly areas where PCGS beats NGC just like they beat ICG and ANACS." Well, who would have guessed.

Thanks for your info. Please write to someone WHO CARES!

The real answer to everything you have posted is this: The owners of ICG are perfectly content with our TPGS market share which I believe has increased each year in the last decade except for two which stayed the same. END OF STORY!

BTW, you forgot to add another PCGS "accomplishment" to your list above. PCGS has slabbed more COUNTERFEIT coins than ANACS and ICG combined!

 

Agree

 

@Lehigh96

Here is an image of the ICG "Superstar" in a twitter.

 

I think a key thing that is missing here is does ICG want to have the same kind of brand recognition as PCGS and NGC? Not every business strives to be the biggest in their respective field...many prefer a more niche position. Perhaps the ownership at ICG is content with their market-share and their position and doesn't see the benefit in taking on PCGS or NGC.

 

Some interesting points. But I'm confused by one thing.

You write that "PCGS has the best holder in business."

But THEN you write: "I prefer NGC holders."

You prefer an inferior holder? Can you explain. TIA!

 

Yes ICG has a FB page, and yes I follow it, not that they ever post anything. My using the word "lost" means that you are in direct competition with your competitors and there are certainly winners and losers in life.

While I understand that you can't help making jokes, the fact is that social media marketing is a huge avenue for growth and any company that ignores social media outreach does so at their own peril. Your personal ignorance of Twitter proves only that you don't have what it takes to be the "superstar" in your company. I know you think that I am young (I'm 48), but your age doesn't give you an excuse to ignore a portion of your customer base, it simply makes you foolish. The fact is that almost everybody engages on social media. Some are on FB, some on Twitter, some on Instagram, and some on all three (eg myself). To reach them all, your company needs to have a comprehensive social media marketing program. This isn't negotiable, it is business 101.

While I'm glad that you enjoy your job, this paragraph basically reads that you are glad you don't work for one of the top tier TPGs because they work too hard. And while that is great for you, it isn't an attitude that is conducive to your company breaking into the top tier.

Wait a minute, you don't know if your company has a FB page, but you know that they have increased their market share almost every year in the last decade? Excuse me if I don't take your word on that and demand proof before believing it. Furthermore, I would like to see the breakdown of market share by market segment. It seems to me the only plausible way ICG could increase market share is by getting huge modern grading contracts for the online hucksters.

Well, PCGS has slabbed more coins than ANACS and ICG combined so that stands to reason. The real question is what is the percentage of total for each company. I bet the gap is all but eliminated when viewed from that perspective.

 

I collect mainly rainbow toned coinage, and I prefer the way that the toning contrasts with the white NGC insert as opposed to the clear plastic of the PCGS holder.

That said, the PCGS holder is far better overall. They stack better, they are stronger, they are more scratch resistant, and they have anti counterfeiting technology that NGC doesn't have.

My preference is purely aesthetic, which aligns with my collecting philosophy that always puts eye appeal first.

 

PCGS charges the highest prices because they deliver the best product and their coins drive the highest prices.

I'm not sure what customer service is, I complete all my submissions online, and have never had an occasion to talk to anyone at either service on the phone.

While PCGS stated turnaround times are longer than NGC, my experience at the economy level is that they are about the same. I currently have submissions at both companies so we will know my anecdotal experience in a few weeks.

 

I wish @Insider would learn how to use the quoting features of this forum. It is next to impossible to make sense of his replies with the weird square braces and italics/colors.

To explain why ICG is a 2nd rate TPGS, you need not go farther than visit their website. It is atrocious. Looks as though it was designed shortly after Al Gore invented the internet.

 

Forget it Brandon, I tried to get him to use HTML tags in the past, he's a lost cause. IIRC, his wife even got involved in the discussion, and couldn't sway him.

 

Is it the "best product" because their grading is superior...or is it all of the other things (registry, price guide, market share) that make it so? I would argue it's MORE of the latter than the former that is the key to the whole package. Obviously, their grading has to be on par or the whole thing falls apart, but it's the rest of their package...and the resulting realized prices that make them the "best product."

 

An excellent explanation. Thanks!

 

BINGO!

Lehigh96, posted: "Forget it Brandon, I tried to get him to use HTML tags in the past, he's a lost cause. IIRC, his wife even got involved in the discussion, and couldn't sway him."

I have several very good reasons for posting as I do. When a member's post is in

 

I don't want to get in the middle of this fascinating byplay but since ICG's website was mentioned and I had never visited, I did so and got a reply that the site wasn't working. I was amused.

 

It does seem to be down at the moment.

 

Would it be fair to say that the idea of "commercial grading" is more geared towards investors...meaning that the grade is more of a commodity...than it is to a numismatist.

 

Best Answer.

 

They're essentially the same price as NGC with a couple exceptions. Customer service is about the same at both as are turnaround times but it makes sense for a competitor to go after the leader.

That just sounds silly to supposedly be that in the dark about their companies marketing especially saying that on an online forum.

I would also want to see proof to believe this. Business/revenue is different than market share. While business/revenue may have increased market share is likely going down given the fact that PCGS/NGC have been expanding internationally and dominate the growing world coin grading.

Not to mention if someone were to slab a fake themselves they wouldn't know it so it's much easier to try and point out someone elses mistakes