Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by TylerH, Oct 10, 2018.
My impression of the coin is that not only is it damaged, but also looks cleaned IMO.
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I agree the fields in general look “funny.” I just chalked it up to old gold which probably had a cleaning long ago. From what I have seen the TPGs tend to be forgiving.
I know that early US coins like this one tend to get a bit more leeway with regard to problems, but there’s enough going on that I don’t think it should straight grade. If I bought this coin sight-unseen with a straight grade, I would be upset when the coin arrived.
@baseball21. He challenged another member's opinion of this coin, yet baseball21 has been strangely silent. I don't wonder why?
Why should I answer your question, when you won't answer mine?
I call it VF-Details due to altered surfaces and more than acceptable circulation damage for the grade.
Is @baseball21 your ALT? As for your question, I have no idea what you are asking. So...while I wait for baseball to guess the grade, and NOW for you to grade the coin also if you dare...
What is the question you want me to answer?
I'll look in tomorrow and hopefully find that both of you have posted your grade opinion of the coin's obverse. I'll answer that question too - just ask.
I've asked you multiple times, who is the superstar at ICG and ANACS?
I know nothing about 18th century gold, so my grade would basically be that of a novice. That said, personally I grade it XF Details (damaged). I would assume that ICG also details graded the coin.
I have less than 0 interest in rehasing something from three years ago especially not with some of the parties involved at the time. I have no interest in trying to debate know it alls
You're going to be waiting forever then
I happen to agree with you and everyone who guessed XF-damaged. I also disagree with ANYONE (Baseball ?) who claims that only an expert in early gold can grade this coin.
Lehigh96, posted: "I know nothing about 18th century gold, so my grade would basically be that of a novice. That said, personally I grade it XF Details (damaged). I would assume that ICG also details graded the coin. I've asked you multiple times, who is the superstar at ICG and ANACS?
Sorry, I remember this question and just brushed it off. We don't have a superstar! We are staffed by a bunch of nobodies. Three of them have been professional numismatists way before you were born.
baseball21, posted: "I have less than 0 interest in rehasing something from three years ago especially not with some of the parties involved at the time. I have no interest in trying to debate know it alls."
Question: What grade did ICG assign to this coin?
ANSWER: ICG did not grade this coin PCGS did.
The reason I asked all of you to grade it is because a member posted this coin as an example of an OVERGRADED coin in a major TPGS slab. IMHO, the coin is INCORECTLY graded as an AU-50 by a major TPGS with no mention of any of the EXTENSIVE DAMAGE all over its surface.
@baseball21 called out the poster who originally questioned the grade - basically claiming the professionals at the grading service (apparently he also considers them to be know-it-alls) know more about grading this coin than the poster. I think this exercise proves that you do not need to be an expert to correctly grade this coin. I'm sorry that we did not get to read Baseball's personal opinion of its grade.
I have often struggled with coins like this (philosophically...as I have no hope of ever owning one due to cost). When I first looked at the coin I could tell the surfaces had been altered. That was clear...and that there was wear. Not knowing anything about what these coins look like in MS, I went with a high VF. Based on your opinion of it being XF details...I wasn't miles off there.
Although I knew the surfaces were altered...my experience looking at coins like this online (I've never seen one in person) has taught me that the TPGs often overlook significant damage to 18th century gold and straight grade them. That's why I went VF35 even though I knew better.
I would consider myself an amateur (at best) when it comes to gold...especially older gold as I have never owned one older than 1925. It was clear to me that this coin, although rare and wonderful as it is, has issues. If I can see it, a real numismatist should be able to quickly. So, why does (in this case PCGS) feel the need to ignore the damage? Why do other TPGs do it too? It seems to me that this is common with this type of gold.
My first thought is...well, maybe not many exist without damage so the scale has been shifted. My thought it is who cares...call it what it is. If they all have damage then they all have damage and the field will accept that.
I have a national bank note in my collection that is a disaster. It has tape, and repairs...it's a mess. But it's one of only a couple known. Once that fact is there...it feels like less of a mess. But just because it is so scarce doesn't mean it's not loaded (and I mean loaded) with issues.
I can't imagine that anyone who calls themselves a numismatist would not be able to see this.
Huh, I had thought this was a crack out, and ICG was the first to grade it.
Wasn't ready for a trick question.
Is xf45 details also your opinion?
I think the whole point was to illustrate that even the "top tier" TPGs are all over the map. IMHO, PCGS is the least consistent of the 4 "reputable" TPGs...but that's just my opinion based on what I have seen.
I think the biggest issue ICG has is lack of market credibility. From what I have seen, their authentication is excellent and they grade pretty accurately. But because PCGS and NGC have been so successful with their advertising for so long...coins in their slabs command higher prices. It's simple brand recognition. I look for ICG slabbed coins when I buy...but I know that in that slab they won't sell for the same price as a coin of equal quality graded by PCGS or NGC.
FYI, the PCGS graders did not miss anything. In fact, I could even UNDERSTAND and argue for the AU-50 grade if the coin were detailed.
Look, I don't lie. Depending on your collecting needs and future needs I can honestly tell everyone that a PCGS slab with a green bean is the best slab to have your coin in when it comes time to sell! Anyone who disregards that FACT is ignorant of the coin market. As far as turnaround time, customer service, and price, PCGS is the worst TPGS! Anyone who disagrees with that FACT is also ignorant in my opinion.
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