Is Ebay going to Pull Sales Taxes on Everyone's Sales?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by fretboard, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    Absolutely! California October 1, 2019. There's still a little time but not much! :D
    CoinCorgi likes this.
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  3. LA_Geezer

    LA_Geezer Well-Known Member

    Agreed, but thank heavens for those who do despite all of this.
    Inspector43 likes this.
  4. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Active Member

    It takes about a 30 pct margin make it in the coin business. Sales Tax is an operating expense and simply needs to be factored into the markup factor.

    For eBay I focus on material I bought right or can retail. At shows I can operate on a slightly smaller spread.
    Paul M. and Inspector43 like this.
  5. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    For perspective - following are the applicable code sections for my State concerning gross receipts/sales tax collections for sales transacted through eBay and other like-kind marketplaces.

    (35) (A) "Forum" means a physical place or electronic location where sales occur.
    (B) "Forum" includes without limitation a:
    (i) Store;
    (ii) Booth;
    (iii) Publicly accessible internet website;
    (iv) Catalog; and
    (v) Place or location similar to the places and locations listed in subdivisions

    (36) "Marketplace facilitator" means a person that facilitates the sale of tangible personal
    property, taxable services, a digital code, a digital magazine, or specified digital products by:
    (A) Listing or advertising tangible personal property, taxable services, a digital code, a digital magazine, or specified digital products for sale in a forum; and
    (B) Either directly or indirectly through an agreement or arrangement with a third party, collecting payment from a purchaser and transmitting the payment to the person selling the tangible personal property, taxable services, a digital code, or specified digital products, regardless of whether the person receives compensation or other consideration in exchange for the person's services in collecting and transmitting the payment;
    (37) "Marketplace seller" means a person that has an agreement with a marketplace facilitator under which the marketplace facilitator facilitates sales for the person;

    Remote sellers and marketplace facilitators.
    (a) A remote seller or a marketplace facilitator that sells or facilitates the sale of tangible personal property, taxable services, a digital code, or specified digital products for delivery into the State shall collect and remit the applicable sales tax levied under this chapter or the applicable compensating use tax levied under the Compensating Tax Act if in the previous calendar year or in the current calendar year, the remote seller or the marketplace facilitator had aggregate sales of tangible personal property, taxable services, digital codes, or specified digital products subject to sales or use tax within this state or delivered to locations within this state exceeding:
    (1) One hundred thousand dollars ($100,000); or
    (2) Two hundred (200) transactions.
    (b) A sale made through a marketplace facilitator:
    (1) Is a sale of the marketplace facilitator for purposes of determining whether a person satisfies the criteria stated in subsection (a) of this section; and
    (2) Is not a sale of the marketplace seller for purposes of determining whether a person satisfies the criteria stated in subsection (a) of this section.
  6. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    The buyer gets invoiced for the sales tax. Of course as with buyers fees at auctions it could make the buyers only willing to pay a lesser amount.

    And remember it is only a matter of time before all the auction houses are collecting these sales taxes for every state too.
    Inspector43 and Paul M. like this.
  7. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    I know I’m cutting my bids by 10% when eBay starts invoicing for CA sales tax. I hope they at least take into account that coins and bullion over $1500 is tax exempt!
    Good Cents likes this.
  8. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Active Member

    It should help my show sales then.
  9. justafarmer

    justafarmer Senior Member

    New Hampshire has passed legislation providing some protections for in-state business from the Wayfair decision. Basically any state seeking to impose sales tax collection on a New Hampshire business must file a 45 day notice of intent with the State. The notice must be for the specific business from whom collection is targeted. In other words a seller in New Hampshire is not required to collect another State's taxes until 45 days after that State has provided the business with proper notice.

    My State for the purpose of determining sales tax liability has designated a sale made through a marketplace facilitator (Ebay, Amazon, etc) as a sale of the facilitator and not a sale of the actual seller. The hole I see with this approach is it promotes establishment and use of electronic marketplaces outside of US jurisdiction. Such as Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, ect.
    ToughCOINS and Paul M. like this.
  10. I don't think eBay does this in Mississippi, but JMBullion and most of the bullion sites charge sales tax on all items shipped here. Really irritating because their prices are usually cheaper than what I find on eBay, but with the tax factored in, Ebay usually ends up being the cheaper option. Which I prefer not buying on eBay for a multitude of reasons.
  11. Good Cents

    Good Cents Active Member

    For those who stopped or avoid selling on eBay, is there another online forum (other than CT or shows) where you sell your coins or bullion?
  12. Good Cents

    Good Cents Active Member

    I'm not a lawyer, but this NH law sounds like it is in direct contradiction to the Supreme Court ruling in the Wayfair case. Maybe this will be the next case brought to the Supreme Court.

    Basically, the Supreme Court says that by FEDERAL LAW states can set their own reasonable thresholds * and if any Seller of taxable goods or services delivered to ANY state meets those thresholds then by FEDERAL LAW the state where the goods/services were delivered can collect the sales tax it from the Seller, can penalize the Seller for not having collected it and can require the Seller to register with that state, and file quarterly sales tax reports to that State (again, regardless of what state the seller is in, and last I checked NH was part of the Union).

    So much for "State's Rights." States got their rights, and now we, the people, are paying through the nose! Each state has its own laws about Sales Tax on Bullion too. It's a nightmare for everyone except the Accountants and the State Treasuries.

    eBay is actually doing all the Sellers a favor by collecting and reporting to all 45 states with Sales Tax. If eBay didn't do that, every small seller would have to do it themselves. (eBay is not doing it out of benevolence, they know THEY would get sued by 45 states if they didn't do this sales tax collecting because they are the ones that have deep pockets. Small sellers don't.)

    Btw, by the end of this year EVERY Online Retailer selling taxable goods or services on the web has to collect and pay Sales Taxes to ALL 45 States that charge Sales Tax. Every Catalog Retailer has to do the same. It's a nightmare for small businesses. Sure, Walmart can handle it. And eBay HAS to handle it, lest 45 states come after it for facilitating all these sales. But small online retailers have a nightmare on their hands.

    This is the kind of legislation that can and should be worked on by BOTH government parties - Democrat & Republican alike - namely, simplifying the new nightmare of Sales Tax collection, reporting, etc. with regard to online retail commerce. Hopefully our Legislative Branch can come up with something FAST, before all kinds of small business owners suffer from the burdens of sales tax audits, sales tax penalties, tax court in other states, etc.

    * I believe the minimum any state's threshold is in terms of mandatory sales tax registration and reporting in a specific state is either 200 separate sales within that state in the previous calendar year, or $100,000 of sales within that state in the previous calendar year.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  13. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Thanks much for posting . . . and how did I not know of this sooner as a business registered in the State of NH? My self-promoting senator spends too much time writing to us about her efforts, and not enough about what is actually being ACCOMPLISHED by our government.
    Hookman likes this.
  14. Darryl Lesser C.W.

    Darryl Lesser C.W. New Member

    my two cents worth..

    Edited: However it is a political discussion and are not allowed . No points this time. Warning only, BUT read the rules!!

    This is my opinion and my opinion only :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2019
  15. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    New Hampshire's law almost certainly will be challenged, and at least part of it almost certainly will prevail. As with other communications from which liability may emerge (banking fees, insurance coverage, eviction notices, property tax liens, etc.), it is imcumbent upon those imposing a potential liability to provide direct and timely communication of new responsibilities.

    Just as likely to be challenged, but more murky is the requirement that compliant businesses be able to "recover reasonable costs incurred in the collection and remission of sales and use taxes to an out of state taxing jurisdiction". This is a great, big apple for the SCOTUS to bite from. Why? Because, large businesses might easily comply, while for small businesses, it is entirely likely that it will cost more to implement and maintain the systems necessary to withhold and remit the required taxes than the total taxes they are responsible to withhold for other states. Are the taxing jurisdictions going to pay those smaller businesses the difference if the cost of withholding exceeds the taxes withheld?
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  16. harley bissell

    harley bissell Well-Known Member

    I assume that ebay will provide each BUYER with a form showing how much they have paid in taxes. I intend to deduct every damn penny from my state taxes for the first time in my life. I will include every cent I've spent on all purchases. I hope to zero out my state income taxes and will advise all friends and family members to do the same thing. \ EDITED: Political Discussion For sellers it also causes a loss of revenues but no extra paperwork.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2019
  17. Packrat

    Packrat Active Member

    It just grows in the liquor stores which used to be state owned. Don't know if they still are or not.
  18. myownprivy

    myownprivy Well-Known Member

    This is a tricky situation. (Great link you provided to the Sales Tax Institute, by the way).

    On the one hand, it is a completely fair situation in my opinion when we are talking about an established retailer like an Amazon or Target or a brick and mortar business that sells as a third party seller on these websites. If you have to pay sales tax when you walk into their physical stores, then you should also have to pay sales tax when you buy from them online. That seems FAIR. And the internet should not serve as a way to evade tax responsibility. If it does, it will place physical stores at a disadvantage and people will do more and more shopping online, and thus hasten the demise of brick and mortar.

    HOWEVER, having said that, if I, as an individual, not a business, want to sell someone online, should I be required to collect sales tax (or have ebay collect sales tax on my behalf). That doesn't seem fair. It doesn't seem fair because when I sell on ebay I am selling to what amounts to a basically larger version of a garage sale or national craigslist. So, when Amazon Marketplace or Ebay collect sales tax on my sales, they are treating me as a business and harming me and my occasional sales as an individual.

    My understanding is that ebay will not force me to collect sales tax unless I am a business in my state. However, I believe Amazon imposes tax on all Marketplace sellers, can someone who sells there verify? As a buyer I know I have to pay sales tax on all Amazon Marketplace purchases. It seems like only a matter of time before ebay will collect sales tax on all ebay sales.
  19. LMHESS

    LMHESS New Member

    I live in Ohio. I mainly buy, but occasionally sell. Ohio in particular has a law that they do not collect tax on bullion. Prior to buying any further gold pieces, I contacted ebay and was told that the tax would be collected on all sales and they would remit it for the seller. If Ohio is not expecting any tax on bullion, what is ebay doing with the money, which is about 7-8%? If they are sending it to Ohio, what is Ohio doing with it? I would not mind paying tax on grading and slabbing or in other words anything above the spot price of gold that day since it is not the actual cost of the gold. Unfortunately, since ebay has chosen to go this route, I have chosen to temporarily not purchase gold or other bullion. I was also told by ebay that if tax is not due, I could contact the State of Ohio to ask for my tax money back. In my opinion, this really makes buying very unpleasant and really a hassle. Regarding the Wayfair decision, Wayfair sells NEW, UNUSED items. They sell items that could easily be purchased by a customer in their own State where the State would collect the tax. I always expect and pay any tax for anything online that I purchase that is NEW. I don't however expect to pay tax at a garage sale for used collectible items. Ebay was originally started as an online garage sale.
  20. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    Usually yard sales are not pursued by the feds or states, because of the assumption it is being sold for less than you paid for it and they would not warrant its pursuit. Some people do list such things on their tax forms as depreciation in businesses or rentals and that is usually reconciled on federal and state forms. Straight donations such as to Salvation Army, and others, can be deducted by the amounts suggested by various 3rd party data , such as that included in Turbotax (tm) or similar programs. The tax authorities do watch real estate and other large dollar sales more closely, IMO, Jim
  21. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Not all sellers . . . :D
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