Is "downgrading" by a potential buyer a common problem?

I'm just a poor humble newbie trying to sell a few coins, and have been making inquiries and seeing a few dealers.

In particular, I was shopping around a 1900 Austrian four-ducat coin, and two reputable dealers in New York, when I asked how they'd classify it, told me the condition was "very fine." I made a clumsy attempt to post a not-very-good picture here, and got a comment that it looked better than that.

So I went to a third place, and this time I just said, "I was told that the condition would be extremely fine - is that about right?" And person said, oh, yes, or maybe even a little better.

I'm left wondering: Is it common that when a dealer is also a potential buyer, that he's likely to downplay the condition because he's figuring on offering a lower price? This was very disconcerting.

 

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Just like everything. It depends on the person. Some people are more honest than others. Grading is also very subjective from person to person.
And yes they do need to be able to make a profit.

 

It happens quite often. Even when the coin is holdered by a TPG in a particular grade some dealers will dispute the grade.

 

Yes grading is subjective and if you posted a 'not very good' picture it's likely the that the dealers who have seen the coin in hands interpretation of grade is closer to the actual condition. Though dealers looking to buy generally want to get the item for the best price they can. Which doesn't always mean the best price for the seller but they are trying to run a business after all.

 

I have a local coin shop "lowballer" that always tells me my stuff is junk, but he pays good on scrap gold and it's the only place near me to get holders, tubes and flips - and I ignore the rest of his opinions politely. It just becomes friendly debate

I did challenge him last time, and I'm going to let him defend his grade. The 1888-S I brought him that he claimed was "XF at best, but he'd give me $75 for" was just graded MS63 at ANACS. He's tried to convince me on a few coins that I've known better on, and this time I decided to test my skills and have a 3rd party tell me just how accurate I was. I knew it was uncirculated, my best guess was between 62 and 64. It turns out I did pretty well after spending some time on it.

Grading is somewhat subjective and some say that NGC and/or PCGS have higher standards - but I do trust ANACS enough to get it right and while it may be a 62 by PCGS - it's still nowhere near an XF - and I knew that.

He's in business to make money - I get it. He loses a bit of respect when he pulls that kind of thing. I guess it's tough in smaller markets.

Do your homework, learn how to read and grade a coin, and if you have something of real value - it's always worth it to have it professionally graded. Someone can still dispute it - but they don't have much to stand on other than financial gain. It's also good to see the really pretty ones get saved.

 

I know some do that. I took a 1893 Morgan, most agree it was XF. A dealer told me it was VF and they don't sell well. He can show you coins he has. I told them on NGC forum a dealer offered $200 and would pay by check and he said "take that offer!". I sold it on Ebay for $200 and a bargain at that, quickly and easily.

 

Is low balling and down grading coins someone is offering to sell common? Only like ohhh, air, water, sand, dirt, crooked politicians. It is the ENTIRE reason third party grading was invented. Before TPG, many a dealer bought many a "VF to XF" coin that magically was transformed to a "solid BU" when it ended up in his case.

 

I often wonder what the vintners buy
One half so precious as the stuff they sell

 

Sadly, this is fairly common among dealers. If they are selling, it's MS. If they are buying, it's XF. That's why you need to know your stuff!

 

Play their game and start high. If you have an uncirculated coin and say I think it's XF, they might say it's VF. But if you say it's uncirculated, they may say AU

 

Grade lower when they are buying and a grade higher when selling

 

I'm pretty sure we all struggle with being objective when we're selling our coins and want to get a good profit. Same goes for the guy on the other end trying to get a good deal.

 

I did get that sometime from other dealer. They will say they are worth so much and then on their counter show the somewhat same dates and also condition which marks for more. Sometime they will buy it from you for about half of what is book and turn around sell it at book price. Yes you do need to know your stuff and the condition. Also you do have the right to say NO to them as well. Alot of the time you can sell on Ebay and get more for what you get from your local coin shops.

 

Yes it happens commonly. It also happens commonly in every other field as well.

And collectors do the same thing when they are buying from dealers.

And it still happens. Maybe not to that extreme but "I don't know how they could have called that a 67, it's a 65 at best. 65 money is the best I can do for it."

next customer
"Have a look a this beautiful 67 that just came in! I think they were a little too conservative on it though

 

Amen, brother. Same game, different script. As much as I know it's going to happen, it still poisons my attitude about dealers who practice it. And I don't give Mulligans. Try to scam me once, and I'm done with you, forever.

 

If you can attract the bidiots.

 

Keep in mind that collectors often try to do the same thing when buying from dealers. It's a two way street.

 

Even though it goes both ways, collectors don't have the same leverage as a dealer. The dealer dictates the price. The customer can remark the coin is a lower grade and try and haggle, but I don't see much of this at the shops I go to, maybe shows though. In any case, the dealer still decides. I think it would be better if a dealer said, "sure, this coin could be an xf, but I'm going to offer you Vf prices for it." That's what kinda happens, but the dealer won't typically say this. It is understood that dealers have businesses to run, and some might even offer a VG price for the coin. I don't dwell on the morality of this, I just see it as part of the whole game. As serious collectors, we all know the value of education and what it does to help us. We can decide the best route to buy or sell, and by the same token dealers do things that maximize profitability

 

To me, it's just not worth the aggravation to deal with a dealer in a retail environment, so I don't. It's why I prefer the public auction environment. At least I know that I'll pay exactly one bid increment over what the next really cheap guy in the next row would have, and that's WAAAAAY below what any dealer would beat me up for it. I get lower prices and don't get my intelligence insulted.

 

I agree that there are some dealers who downplay he grade, as well as up-play it. When I first started out, I went to buy an UNC 1916 Barber quarter. It was sold to me as such. Awhile later I let another dealer look at it and told me it was XF. And he brought out a true UNC of the same year to compare. He was right. It's the dealers (some) who prey on newbies in collecting, trying to pass off coins that are not the grade they claim. Big difference between an XF and MS Barber Quarter. Once I got to know the series and learned to grade a bit better myself, i came to know when my leg was being pulled.

Or some are like car dealers, you go in looking for a particular piece, but they want to sell you something else and attempt to push it on you, telling you all the finer points of why you should have it.