Irish political tokens

I've never seen any anti-Irish/British political slogans on banknotes.

That's probably because, although GB coins used to circulate freely south of the border, their banknotes didn't (as much) after 1978.

 

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They're definitely rare, James. Banknotes don't survive nearly as long as coins of course. I didn't know that banknotes also circulated, but it makes sense that they did.

Other than the handful I have, I've only seen two others. Both were hand-written and from a source I didn't know, so passed on them. The others are authentic as far as I know, because of the people I got them from. Two were actually given to me, and I paid very little for the others.

Bruce

 

Verify the 2014 ANS article in the Eric P. Newman Portal. I just read the article there about a month ago.

 

The nice thing about that note is they don't circulate any more, so there probably won't be many more of them appearing. I can just imagine some hardline Republican ordering a rubber stamp and "inking" all the notes they could find - more expensive than overstriking 10p coins, but quicker / easier !

 

Thanks, Colonialjohn. I'll have to look again.

Bruce

 

Hi, the "foreign" stamp marks it as Ulster Loyalist - they wanted to emphasize their view that the Republic of Ireland was a foreign state, despite, at the time, Irish and British currency being interchangeable in Northern Ireland

 

Thanks for your input, Tom. I always suspected this was the reason for the "Foreign" counterstamp, but now I know for sure. I've attached a picture of another coin that illustrates the same attitude..."Eire Stinks" on a 1969 10p.

I've also attached an image of another counterstamp that I'm hoping you might be able to decipher. I asked two of my friends who are acquainted with these political issues what the stamps mean. Both thought that the "SA" stood for either South Armagh or South Antrim, most likely South Antrim. The "4" might be a UVF or IRA Brigade or unit, but they were guessing on that. No guess as to what "GC" stands for. Would you be able to hazard a guess, Tom? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Bruce

 

Hi Bruce, that one has me stumped, I'm afraid. The only thing I'd suggest is that South Antrim is unlikely, as is UVF or UDA, given that South Antrim's a mainly-protestant area, and this coin almost certainly stamped by republicans rather than Protestants-Loyalists - it's defacing a UK coin, not an Irish one. So if Republicans did this one, I'm not aware of an IRA (or INLA, etc) South Antrim Brigade. That would leave South Armagh as the more likely; but this is only thinking aloud, and no clue as to "GC". If I get any more bright ideas, I'll pass them on. In the meantime, you have probably seen this attached paper, but I'll share it anyway, interesting resource, Tom

 

Thanks for weighing in on the GC coin, Tom.

I'm not aware of an IRA brigade in South Antrim either. One of the men I spoke to in Belfast told me, as you have, that South Antrim was strongly Loyalist, so he felt it might be a UVF / UDA issue even though it's on a UK coin. That may not be as unusual as it seems. I've been compiling a census of these political pieces for the past 7 or 8 years, and have documented a bit over 1,000 coins so far...400 are in my personal collection. Surprisingly, nearly 10% of all Loyalist stamps are struck on UK coins. When I first started, I wouldn't have thought that was the case either.

I have seen the attached paper, but thank you for referring it to me. The ANS has a small collection of these politicals, which I've added to my census. They were kind enough to send me an inventory several years ago. If you're aware of any person or organization who has a collection of these, I'd be interested in contacting them. I'm trying to make my census as comprehensive as possible. Thanks, Tom.

Bruce

 

Faked older issues are relatively easy to spot, i.e. the counterstamp shows no sign of wear or aging + the font is too modern.

Recent 'faked' countermarks on recent coins are more difficult to spot.

At the end of the day, it is up to collectors to simply say "no" to higher prices which will, in turn, make fakes not worth the time + effort to produce.

 

Get ready for an avalanche of nationalist / republican slogans on the recently de-monetised UK 'round' £1 coins. I'm sure there's plenty still out there and, since the banks won't take them, someone will spot this as a licence to print money.

 

I think you might be over-estimating the difficulties of circulating coins in enemy territory, i.e. many shop assistants are pretty careless when it comes to accepting counterfeit currency or foreign currency.

I do agree with your vending machine theory - it's probably the easiest method + guaranteed to get goods to the value of the coins. Phoneboxes, cigarette machines, parking meters, soft drinks / sweets, etc. All would be easy, non-suspicious targets.

Most UK and Irish coins were similar in size up to the 1980s, and they both circulated freely in Ireland until the break with Sterling in the late 1970s, so this probably explains why the more recent counterstamps are mostly on UK coins, which in turn, probably suggests this 'little hobby' for people with little to do most likely originates in Northern Ireland and not activists south of the border.

 

As a dealer who usually buys in bulk, I have an advantage over a collector buying a single coin, i.e. if all the other coins in the lot are of a similar age (date range) to the counterstamped coin, it's more than likely genuine.

 

You're right, James, the older fakes are easier to spot because of the reasons you give.

As you say, one thing to look for is the sometimes outrageous prices the fakers are asking, not to mention very high postage charges. Ridiculous claims like "mega rare" for relatively common stamps are sometimes in the description. Though there are still a lot of bad modern pieces being listed...fortunately by only 2 or 3 sellers using various IDs... the real offenders now are "Votes For Women" and related counterstamps. There's probably at least 15 or 20 on eBay right now, and as far as I can tell they're all fakes. I've attached images of a few typical fakes. Sorry, I don't have any "Votes For Women" in my files.




Bruce

 

I noticed a 50 pence piece in my purse today stamped with R I R A, heavily indented especially around the the first and last character. Not sure if it's of any interest to anyone, will take a pic as soon as my son returns my phone to me.

 

Love to see it, Mel. I have a number of these in my collection. The Real Irish Republican Army wasn't formed until 1997, so theses are about the latest issues from the Troubles.

Bruce

 

Here's a typical "RIRA" stamp, Mel. Nearly all are on 1-Pound coins. and are heavily struck over the portrait.

Bruce

 

Hi Bruce,

I have found two of these coins when clearing out an old jar of coins. Are you still interested in purchasing any? If your not, could you give me cone advice on where I might be best to sell them? Thanks,

Nicola

 

Please see my PM to you.
Thanks,
Bruce