Intermediate Quiz: What caused these marks?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Insider, Sep 2, 2020.

  1. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    IMG_4542.JPG

    What you see on this SLQ is common to silver coins. What do you think caused it?

    For those who need to see the entire coin:

    IMG_4541.JPG
    :hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::p

    BEST ANSWER: Describe what you see first, then tell us what caused it.

    Hopefully, the experts will let the beginners post first.
     
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  3. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    I SEE parallel marks across the coin, devices and fields. I would guess feeder fingers.
     
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  4. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Kentucky, posted: "I SEE parallel marks across the coin, devices and fields."

    Correct. You have identified the subject of this quiz. Now, what about them?
     
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  5. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Uh...feeder fingers not adjusted correctly?
     
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  6. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Before trying to ID the cause of anything you see on a coin a person needs to be able to describe it in words that someone who cannot see the coin will understand and imagine what it looks like.

    Great example so far: Parallel marks. What else? Are they wide/narrow, short/long, smooth/rough, jagged, raised, deep/shallow, colorful, etc.

    The experts :bookworm::cigar: are behaving :muted:;) but I know they are dying :troll: to post the answer. Hurry up! What does anyone see?
     
  7. Danomite

    Danomite What do you say uh-huh

    Parallel marks with across the fields and devices. Imagine a coin sliding across 36 grit sandpaper or a dirty glass top counter in a local soda shop in the 1940s. PMD? BTW, your picture of the whole coin is soooo blurry I can’t make out a thing. :(
     
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  8. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    Under magnification, the lines appear "bumpy", and I think, a bit raised. It appears they may be more raised on the higher relief areas of the design.

    I'll guess roller marks, since I am no expert.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
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  9. Hambone1946

    Hambone1946 Well-Known Member

    Planchet roller marks that didn't strike out when struck.
     
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  10. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    I know but will not say :lock:

    Your blurry SLQ looks gold plated :wacky:
     
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  11. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I can't figure it out. Some of the marks make me think of a clashed die but I can't match them to the reverse die. I'll just guess that the die was damaged in some way. Maybe even repaired. My last guess would be counterfeit.
     
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  12. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    It kinds has a brushed appearance, but it also looks like a planchet flaw
     
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  13. expat

    expat Remember you are unique, just like everyone else Supporter

    The parallel surface "scrapes" look similar to the marks made when repeatedly sliding coins out of plastic holders.
     
  14. John Burgess

    John Burgess Well-Known Member

    I see no marks, clearly that is a MS70 coin!

    Seriously, I'm going to go with "coin on coin contact" otherwise known as "wear".
     
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  15. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    The marks appear not to traverse the whole coin. I imagined roller marks on a planchet would do so, but I'm not sure of that.

    It doesn't look like the marks are more pronounced on high points of the design, as I'd expect them to be for something pre-existing on the planchet, or for that matter from sliding across a surface.

    ...no, wait, they do look more pronounced on the leftmost vertical element.

    I also see a fine raised line diagonal to the main tracks (which I can't assign as "raised" or "incuse"). That diagonal appears to be dashed, as though something was skipping across the die and leaving scratches.

    All I have time for at the moment. I'll watch with interest for the reveal.
     
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  16. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    No slide can make these marks.

    Great example so far: Parallel marks. What else? Are they wide/narrow, short/long, smooth/rough, jagged, raised, deep/shallow, colorful, etc.

    OK, one at a time. This is the subjective part. Are the PARALLEL marks wide or narrow. I'd describe narrow as two lead pencil lines next to each other. Wide might look like this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
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  17. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    The marks clearly go in one direction. I would use the word "parallel" to describe the relationship of the medial axes of the different blobs, but not the blobs themselves. They appear recessed, but as they are blob shaped and not striations, they wouldn't be roller marks. I'd say they're rolled out minor flaws in the planchet stock that aren't severe enough to have dark inclusions, but are too significant to be struck out completely. Based on the full-coin picture, you'd get a lot of money for this on eBay.
     
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  18. bradgator2

    bradgator2 Well-Known Member

    The wide marks have 3D texture to them. Like what it looks like when you pull old duct tape off of something.
     
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  19. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    They are on the raised features so feed finger abrasions are out. The lines appear to have some lines that are etched separated by lines that are not "etched". The etched marks do not appear to be flush to the surface. Could be something that was rolled into the surface of the strip, or something has selectively etched the coin based on slight differences in the metal composition. Could also be a strikethrough but the linear structure would tend to indicate that if it was the material was on the planchet through the rolling process.
     
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  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    This is the part that throws me. I say that because I've never seen marks quite like those before.

    [​IMG]

    Some are wider than the others, (and yes I would describe some as being quite wide, unusually wide even), some are deeper than the others, and some have different starting and ending points, some transect raised portions, others do not. There is 1 mark that transects the upper parallel mark inside the plaque, but that appears to be a reed hit.

    But the cause, I can't quite hazard a guess because some characteristics seem to indicate post strike cause and some pre-strike cause - and that all by itself doesn't jive. The coin is obviously weakly struck though as indicated by the fact that there is not a single letter visible in plaque box, and usually there is even on well worn examples. But it's also not unheard of for the plaque box to be void of any letters/text either, even on MS examples.

    Lastly, what's going on with the E is a scrape/gouge/heavy contact mark, and seemingly completely unrelated to the parallel marks.

    So OK Mike, I waited 2 days to say that much - and still haven't said much. Please continue :)
     
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  21. ZoidMeister

    ZoidMeister Hamlet Squire of Tomfoolery . . . . .

    So, what the Paul Harvey moment?

    Where's "the rest of the story?"

    Z
     
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