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Interesting thread about a PCGS reholder sub that downgraded
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<p>[QUOTE="geekpryde, post: 4152017, member: 36248"]It might have been an egregious error in the original grade, that PCGS felt they could not possibly re-holder and not correct it. Compensation was offered, but perhaps not enough to satisfy the owner with the downgrade. I think through negotiations with PCGS customer support it probably could be rectified. </p><p><br /></p><p>Another more interesting possibility is something [USER=112]@GDJMSP[/USER] has been talking about for years now. That at some point in the future, NGC and PCGS will have to take the reins in hand and get the runaway horse back in control. The runaway horse that I speak of is of course grade inflation and loosened standards that have taken place over time. The TPGs have a vested interest in slowly inflating the assigned grades to steal business from the other TPG, and also from the steady stream of repeat business for those playing the crack-out-game. Well, Doug has long predicted here on CT, and in direct correspondence with members, that at some point it would get so ridiculous, so egregious, that the TPG would have to bring back the older, more conservative, predictable, definable standards. It will be the only way to protect their brand and business model from utter irrelevance that comes from a completely compromised and tarnished reputation. Perhaps the future is now, and this OP re-slabbed PCGS coin is a the canary in the coalmine?</p><p><br /></p><p>Think about it like this, lets say the TPG standards are like a roller coaster and change over time. Ups and downs, curves, and loops. Well, TPG are businesses and they like to make money in all situations and time periods, or they quite literally will cease to exist. TPGs found a way to make loads of money on the way down, it was exciting and thrilling and most everyone love it as their standards loosed and an very nice flashy AU58 coins magically became a valuable MS65 coin, it was like printing money. And people got hooked, collectors, dealers, and the TPGs. Well, like any gold rush, at some point so many people get involved, and it's so pervasive, that it gets played out. There just is not enough to go around, and the ride comes to an end. </p><p><br /></p><p>Now hold on a second, there are a lot of people that don't want the ride to end, can't have it end. Do you really think the TPG haven't thought of a way to make money on the way up the next rollercoaster climb? Sure its not thrilling like the way down, but hey, it's inevitable right? A rollercoaster that's flat is not much amusement at all. The change is what makes it fun and exciting.</p><p><br /></p><p>If gobs of money can be made with loosening standard, I think it is reasonable to presume their is loads of money to make with tightening standards. Think about a sudden mass awakening of collectors are they see their coins sitting in current generation holders, whose reputations have been tarnished through egregious grading. Well, maybe you think YOUR coins aren't over-graded, you only purchased properly graded coins, and you would never play the crack-out-game. Well, the mere perception of your coins in those holders as being over-graded would greatly devalue the coins, should you ever choose to sell. You might rush right out to get your coins re-holdered in say a future generation of slab, easily recognizable from the era of strict, conservative, trustworthy period of TPG grading. Well NGC and PCGS will try and outdo each other in being consistent and trustworthy and old-school conservative graders. The name of the game now is Trust and Reputation. There is a avalanche of already holdered coins to make money on re-holdering and re-stickering, and well, here we have another gold rush on our hands. </p><p><br /></p><p>If you don' think it can happen, will look at the value of coins in basement and defunct TPG slabs. They are literally worth less than a raw coin. Think about all the people interested in slab generations, and how the slabs evolve and are easily identifiable from generation to generation, year to year. Well, it would be very easy for people to refuse to buy coins say slabbed between 2010-2020, without a steep discount. They might insists on paying top dollar for only PCGS slab generation 2021, or very old style holders.</p><p><br /></p><p>Registries drive a ton of sales and value on coins. You dont think some third party registry will come along that accepts PCGS and NGC, and it's all the rage and fad, and anyone whose anyone will rush to create their registry sets on this new and trustworthy site, independent from NGC and PCGS? Now imagine that due to what is in hindsight loose and egregious grading of the recent generations, they ban all holders from say 2010-2020. Well, another reason to re-holder your coins, you want to compete with all the other collectors on this cool new strict registry that only accepts the best of the best. </p><p><br /></p><p>Some people don't believe in grade inflation, some might believe in the concept, but say it's impossible to ever go back to the "old" standards. Some people on CT think its a waste of time to even talk about it, there is nothing that can be done about it anyway. Well, I think you are not being creative enough. When PCGS and NGC's entire reputation is on the line, and they have backed them selves so far into a corner, its change or die. The capitalist in me knows that greed and survival will mean the TPG will have no choice to protect themselves from permanent reputation destruction, in fact, as you see above, I think they will wholeheartedly embrace it and spin on a dime once they reach the tipping point. </p><p><br /></p><p>So, are we at the bottom of a long and exciting drop, and things have petered out, or are we just on a small plateau and there is still plenty to drop before the end? Could we just about be at the horseshoe turn on the rollercoaster, and suddenly we are moving backwards?</p><p><br /></p><p>Personally, I think we probably have a way to go yet. But in future, I think so many people will look back and wonder how we didn't all see it plain as day. How nutty it has become.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="geekpryde, post: 4152017, member: 36248"]It might have been an egregious error in the original grade, that PCGS felt they could not possibly re-holder and not correct it. Compensation was offered, but perhaps not enough to satisfy the owner with the downgrade. I think through negotiations with PCGS customer support it probably could be rectified. Another more interesting possibility is something [USER=112]@GDJMSP[/USER] has been talking about for years now. That at some point in the future, NGC and PCGS will have to take the reins in hand and get the runaway horse back in control. The runaway horse that I speak of is of course grade inflation and loosened standards that have taken place over time. The TPGs have a vested interest in slowly inflating the assigned grades to steal business from the other TPG, and also from the steady stream of repeat business for those playing the crack-out-game. Well, Doug has long predicted here on CT, and in direct correspondence with members, that at some point it would get so ridiculous, so egregious, that the TPG would have to bring back the older, more conservative, predictable, definable standards. It will be the only way to protect their brand and business model from utter irrelevance that comes from a completely compromised and tarnished reputation. Perhaps the future is now, and this OP re-slabbed PCGS coin is a the canary in the coalmine? Think about it like this, lets say the TPG standards are like a roller coaster and change over time. Ups and downs, curves, and loops. Well, TPG are businesses and they like to make money in all situations and time periods, or they quite literally will cease to exist. TPGs found a way to make loads of money on the way down, it was exciting and thrilling and most everyone love it as their standards loosed and an very nice flashy AU58 coins magically became a valuable MS65 coin, it was like printing money. And people got hooked, collectors, dealers, and the TPGs. Well, like any gold rush, at some point so many people get involved, and it's so pervasive, that it gets played out. There just is not enough to go around, and the ride comes to an end. Now hold on a second, there are a lot of people that don't want the ride to end, can't have it end. Do you really think the TPG haven't thought of a way to make money on the way up the next rollercoaster climb? Sure its not thrilling like the way down, but hey, it's inevitable right? A rollercoaster that's flat is not much amusement at all. The change is what makes it fun and exciting. If gobs of money can be made with loosening standard, I think it is reasonable to presume their is loads of money to make with tightening standards. Think about a sudden mass awakening of collectors are they see their coins sitting in current generation holders, whose reputations have been tarnished through egregious grading. Well, maybe you think YOUR coins aren't over-graded, you only purchased properly graded coins, and you would never play the crack-out-game. Well, the mere perception of your coins in those holders as being over-graded would greatly devalue the coins, should you ever choose to sell. You might rush right out to get your coins re-holdered in say a future generation of slab, easily recognizable from the era of strict, conservative, trustworthy period of TPG grading. Well NGC and PCGS will try and outdo each other in being consistent and trustworthy and old-school conservative graders. The name of the game now is Trust and Reputation. There is a avalanche of already holdered coins to make money on re-holdering and re-stickering, and well, here we have another gold rush on our hands. If you don' think it can happen, will look at the value of coins in basement and defunct TPG slabs. They are literally worth less than a raw coin. Think about all the people interested in slab generations, and how the slabs evolve and are easily identifiable from generation to generation, year to year. Well, it would be very easy for people to refuse to buy coins say slabbed between 2010-2020, without a steep discount. They might insists on paying top dollar for only PCGS slab generation 2021, or very old style holders. Registries drive a ton of sales and value on coins. You dont think some third party registry will come along that accepts PCGS and NGC, and it's all the rage and fad, and anyone whose anyone will rush to create their registry sets on this new and trustworthy site, independent from NGC and PCGS? Now imagine that due to what is in hindsight loose and egregious grading of the recent generations, they ban all holders from say 2010-2020. Well, another reason to re-holder your coins, you want to compete with all the other collectors on this cool new strict registry that only accepts the best of the best. Some people don't believe in grade inflation, some might believe in the concept, but say it's impossible to ever go back to the "old" standards. Some people on CT think its a waste of time to even talk about it, there is nothing that can be done about it anyway. Well, I think you are not being creative enough. When PCGS and NGC's entire reputation is on the line, and they have backed them selves so far into a corner, its change or die. The capitalist in me knows that greed and survival will mean the TPG will have no choice to protect themselves from permanent reputation destruction, in fact, as you see above, I think they will wholeheartedly embrace it and spin on a dime once they reach the tipping point. So, are we at the bottom of a long and exciting drop, and things have petered out, or are we just on a small plateau and there is still plenty to drop before the end? Could we just about be at the horseshoe turn on the rollercoaster, and suddenly we are moving backwards? Personally, I think we probably have a way to go yet. But in future, I think so many people will look back and wonder how we didn't all see it plain as day. How nutty it has become.[/QUOTE]
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Interesting thread about a PCGS reholder sub that downgraded
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