Insane coin prices today: HA and CNG

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Pepe, Apr 8, 2020.

  1. Pepe

    Pepe New Member

    I am new to this form, but prices I observed today on HA and CNG were insane! Why, I thought people lost their jobs, economy is about to slip into recession, no additional income ? So why astronomical prices? Flight to safety?

    thank you
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
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  3. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Sometimes you just have to shrug. None of my bids were remotely close on CNG.
  4. Pepe

    Pepe New Member

    But why Bing, I thought people were concerned about the future, why buy coins?
  5. BenSi

    BenSi Supporter! Supporter

    People are home, collectables still stay sound and not everyone lives paycheck to paycheck. I sell art for a living, our market is still strong.
    This is not like 2008, when the danger subsides most people will get their jobs back. It is a very weird time, its like a stop in the economy, not a collapse.
  6. Pepe

    Pepe New Member

    Well, from what i observe, all, virtually all companies furlough their employees, irrespective of the industry, next step - layoffs... why buy coins now? Why not save for a rainy day? Why invest in semi-illiquid assets??
    Paul M. and GoldFinger1969 like this.
  7. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Why not? I've been stuck in my home now for over 3 weeks. Everyone is getting bored and spending more time on the internet. Those of us who participate in the hobby of kings find time on their hands and still have money in our pockets. The government is telling us to spend to help the economy, so I suppose that is what many are doing. Like @BenSi said, the economy hasn't collapsed and I think people feel hopeful for the future. Besides, buying yourself a little something makes you feel better, doesn't it?
    Ariette, Mainebill, Magnus87 and 18 others like this.
  8. Pepe

    Pepe New Member

    True, but coins sold today cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars, all companies revise quarterly and annual business plans, most of furloughed employees will not be back, why buy illiquid assets? Why not buy undervalued equity or a house?
  9. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I certainly cannot speak for anyone but myself, but I was in the market today to buy coins. I own my home outright and, not being the smartest investor, I'm leary of the market. In other words, I don't know what else to do with my "wealth", and I can't get out of this dern house to spend it.
  10. BenSi

    BenSi Supporter! Supporter

    Remember, not all companies need people to work at home , some jobs can only be done from the office or factory. Many of these furloughs are for safety reasons , not lack of work. I know the company I work for has gone skeleton crew, I am earning less right now and I am spending less but I have not closed the door to coins.
  11. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Well-Known Member

    Ah, @Pepe my friend, you are speaking as though people are coping using "common or rational sense" of thought! :jawdrop: For many, nothing could be further from the truth. :( (& really, what is "common sense"?...apparently it's not common, & it's not the same for everyone. :D)

    For example, I am discovering just recently, the coping & fear mechanisms in many of my friends & family, of which I had no prior knowledge. And when you throw in the thoughts of our own mortality....well, there is just no way to rationalize how people will personally respond. Hell, just today on Amazon, I bought a $70 book on Greek coins...I don't even own any Greek coins!!!! :smuggrin::smuggrin::smuggrin:;)
  12. Plumbata

    Plumbata Well-Known Member

    Well Pepe, I've been anxious about those same perceived stormclouds since January. I honestly expected the stock market to crash on the Monday following the Super Bowl, we cashed out what we could then and converted to bullion which seems to be an honestly brilliant decision in retrospect. I'm 33 with 2 baby girls to feed and look after so my priorities are different than the old boomers who've already lived their lives and who represent the majority of the coin collector base.

    The prices you see are probably the result of spooked investors trying to park assets in something less volatile than the DOW, but I'd expect a gigantic crash in the coin market soon, it always lags behind the stock/bond/fungible asset crashes. Save money now and wait for those 100 dollar Athens tetradrachms to start appearing.
    capthank and svessien like this.
  13. DonnaML

    DonnaML Supporter! Supporter

    I still buy coins -- at my price level, not HA's or CNG's -- because they make me happy. And they're a distraction. And it's money I don't need to live on.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  14. Plumbata

    Plumbata Well-Known Member

    I still buy coins/antiquities too, but rarely at retail before and certainly nowhere close to retail now! If you feel vulnerable like me then please protect your resources and your health. This long delayed financial reset was overdue by a decade, now it's happening. Prepare.
    Pepe likes this.
  15. Pepe

    Pepe New Member

    I have also noticed, that people are not dumping their coins on Ebay, given that most of the auction houses are struggling with accommodation of current and future scheduled auctions, shipping, staff retention, and logistics overall...

    i would expect, influx of Ancients on Ebay, but so far, this us not the case... I guess, people are still hoping that the situation will resolve itself by end of May..., which is highly unlikely if we stay on a lockdown...
  16. Plumbata

    Plumbata Well-Known Member

    The full financial breakdown will take time, around 2 years I believe, but I've already seen people start selling (or trying to sell) useless junk like Beanie babies and CCG cards, so it's only a matter of time before nonprecious and silver coins flood the market too. The global economic structure was rotten and ready to collapse 5 years ago, now with the coronavirus pin as an excuse the bubble is being popped now, but sadly most people don't understand what's happening.
    svessien and Archilochus like this.
  17. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member


    How about some Gilbert and Sullivan:

    The Mikado, Act I

    The Mikado, Act II

    One of the best performances I have ever seen.
    Jaelus likes this.
  18. catadc

    catadc Well-Known Member

    There is the problem with shipping, as registered mail is delivered without signature lately and selling on ebay is risky, as customer can claim non-delivery.

    I dissagree that the economy is just stopped. Companies are facing cash flow problems and the bill for state aids will have to be paid by us all. And there is no certainty on when and how economy will restart. Some goods or services will probably recover, but some non-essential ones might not recover to the level before the virus hit.
    Charles REid likes this.
  19. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I understand your sentiment, but I do not believe I've finished living my life just yet. I do not have the priorities you have (my kids are adults nearing thier own retirement ages), but I do have much to look forward to.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  20. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    In the consumer products industries (think, all the stuff y'all have sitting around in your homes), there are different market tiers. Basically, NEEDS and WANTS dictate what people will buy. If you NEED something (food, for example), you will buy it.

    If you WANT something (like jewelry, etc.)... yeah, I WANT to have it, but I do not NEED to have it to survive. This is a discretionary purchase based on your economic means (how much money you have).

    When the economy tanks, there are many folks who will will either HAVE to, or FEEL that they need to slow or stop spending on discretionary purchases. However, this depends on where they are in the economic tiers... do they have a LOT of money, they have modest money, or do they have a little money that they can spend.

    I will be frank: my experience has been, when you have folks with a LOT of discretionary money, the economy does NOT matter. They will spend on their wants no matter what. In fact, when a lot of the folks with modest savings are NOT spending because the economy has tanked, the folks with a LOT of money will jump in and buy things (looking for deals, or PERCEIVED deals.)

    For example: A person having to stretch their budget to buy a lower-priced Fiat auto will be very careful whether to buy it or not if the economy stinks. However, a person who can afford to buy a Rolls Royce, will have the means to buy whether the economy stinks or not.

    I look at people jumping on buying Ancients the same way. Several folks of marginal means to buy extra coins are not as likely to spend a lot in several auctions (during a bad economy). However, folks that have no problem buying Ancients because they have a lot of money, and the economy does not really affect them, will not have a problem and will continue to buy. ON TOP THAT, those buyers that HAVE the means will also COMPETE with those other buyers who have money, and will continue to drive up Auction prices... kinda the psychology of the market, combined with psychology of perceived scarcity, etc.

    I learned that you cannot ascribe your PERSONAL buying constraints onto a market. There are many DIFFERENT folks out there with different needs, wants, and desires. LUXURY goods (ala, Ancient Coins), are items that are not just WANTS, but in fact are truly DESIRES (I really do not need it, I may not really want it, but I DESIRE having that super-cool coin in my collection!) on the scale of items that you can purchase.

    Now let's toss out a couple coins, since this IS an Ancient Coins forum:

    Carthage Zeugitana 400-350 BC AE 15 Tanit Horse std Palm 3 pellets Clipped.jpg
    Carthage Zeugitana 400-350 BC AE 15 Tanit Horse std Palm 3 pellets Clipped

    Carthage - Zeugitana AV 1/10th Stater-Shekel 350-320 BCE 0.94g 7.5mm Palm- Horse Head SNG COP 132
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
    Broucheion, PeteB, Magnus87 and 10 others like this.
  21. Plumbata

    Plumbata Well-Known Member

    I absolutely wasn't suggesting otherwise, my parents are boomers and grandparents are in their 90s and I've been doing everything possible to line up medicine and supplies for them. Know anyone else besides me with piles of Chloroquine and kilos of antibiotics on hand? Neither do I but I'm glad I bought all the meds and masks for them months ago before the rabble woke up because it is simply unavailable now. I take protecting my family and elders quite seriously.

    Honestly the main reason I even mentioned the boomer generation is because several older friends, intelligent individuals I've always respected, are finding it impossible to cope with their stock values evaporating and it's making them behave unwisely and call for policies that may benefit a 70 year old, but would completely screw me and my generation who'd have to foot the bill. Different priorities.
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