Innovation $ Pennsylvania, Die line through D Mintmark

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by SchwaVB57, Sep 24, 2020.

  1. SchwaVB57

    SchwaVB57 Well-Known Member

    I have 5 of the coins, only this one has a line through the edge of the coin. IMG_1714.JPG IMG_1715.JPG IMG_1719.JPG
     
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  3. paddyman98

    paddyman98 Let me burst your bubble! Supporter

    Could it be that it took a hit?
    I can't think of what could cause that during the proccess of adding the letters to the edge.
     
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  4. SchwaVB57

    SchwaVB57 Well-Known Member

    My pictures suck. I am not a photographer. It came straight from a mint roll purchased. I will try to get a better pic of the edge. I do not think it is PMD. Looks too deep of a gouge for a hit by another coin.
     
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  5. SchwaVB57

    SchwaVB57 Well-Known Member

    maybe better photo. IMG_1722.JPG
     
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  6. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Even though the coin may have come from a "Mint-wrapped" roll, the Mint does not put them into rolls. That job is outsourced to a third party who receives the bulk lots of coins in ballistic bags which weigh thousands of pounds.
     
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  7. SchwaVB57

    SchwaVB57 Well-Known Member

    I am aware of the out sourcing. However, I do not see a hit making a mark looking like the I on the edge through the D.
    I am not ruling out PMD, but do not want to not catalog a possible edge error, if there.
     
  8. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster It seemed like a good idea at the time.

    A good rule for identifying errors is trying to explain how it could occur during the minting process, not trying to explain/understand how it could be caused outside the mint.

    How would an indented line get on the coin during the minting process? The blanks go through an upset mill that would remove any residual marks. Any marks on the planchet would be removed/reduced by the collar during striking. If it was caused by the collar, it would have to be a raised mark on the collar to produce an indented line on the edge. Same with the edge lettering process. Any defect would have to be raised on the lettering die. That would rule out a crack or die gouge.

    The simplest explanation is that it’s either a bag mark or from the stacking/sorting/rolling equipment used by the outside vendor to roll the coins.
     
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  9. John Burgess

    John Burgess Well-Known Member

    I'm having a hard time finding the information for the innovation dollars, but previous dollar coins with edge lettering, the proofs are single struck with a segmented collar, there's 3 die pieces and you can see the line where the die pieces meet on the edge of the coin.

    For P+D dollars, the coin is struck then they are run through an edge lettering machine after the strike in a 2 step process.

    My opinion, this could be struck through debris in the edge lettering machine step,

    But currently I can't confirm they are still doing it this way for the P and D mintmarked coins.

    As I understood it, the circulation strikes and mint set examples P+D of edge lettered dollar coins were struck first for obverse and reverse in the press with a blank collar, then they are run through a 2nd machine that does the edge lettering.

    and it's only a single step process for the proof coins, because the collar dies that put on the edge lettering at the same time, break so frequently the results are better for the proof edge lettering but it's a slower process to change the collar dies so much.

    Found it, Coin news article:

    "Dollar coins are processed through an extra step. They are made using two stand-alone coining presses which are not on the production lines. After the dollar coins are struck, they are quickly fed through a RS 50 machine which places the edge lettering on each coin. A die segment, like the one below, are inside the machine. Each coin is rolled over the lettered-groove on the die segment at a pace of 1000 coins per minute."

    [​IMG]

    Until proven otherwise, I am assuming they still do it this same way.
    lets say a piece of metal fragment gets in there with the coin, and there you go.

    What is the orientation of the lettering on this (head up or tails up reading?) and does it wrap from the edge to the rim of the coin also? Does it correspond to what appears in the picture to be an indent on the obverse below the statue of liberty, just past 6 o'clock on the rim?
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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  10. SchwaVB57

    SchwaVB57 Well-Known Member

    Looking at the coin, the line is at the top, between 12 and 1. there is a slight imperfection on the reverse at a slight angle to the straight line on the edge.
    I was thinking an edge strike through or imperfect planchet. Another golden dollar found in a mint roll IMG_0024.JPG IMG_0027.JPG in 2007 as an example.
     
  11. Fred Weinberg

    Fred Weinberg Well-Known Member

    The third photo of the Innovation Dollar (edge)
    shows damage - the coin got jammed in a
    counting/rolling machine.

    The Adams dollar looks like a bad rim ding -
    it does not look like an edge strike or planchet
    flaw.
     
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  12. John Burgess

    John Burgess Well-Known Member

    Well there it is, Fred is an error expert and seen a whole lot of things, his opinion is much more valid than mine on how it happened. Sorry my dude.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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  13. SchwaVB57

    SchwaVB57 Well-Known Member

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