Information about Fairmont Collection … anyone know?

Stack’s Bowers has been auctioning this collection or hoard for several years. I’ve been told there is more to come. Supposedly, the hoard was in European bank vaults for years, and a huge proportion of it is U.S. gold coins. The Stack’s Bowers catalogs have not stated much about location, origin, composition or ownership. Can anyone reveal any information about it.

Cal

 

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A thread from last year. Not a lot of details.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-fairmont-collection-hoard.398893/

 

Contact Ms. Sperber.

 

A guest blogger at Doug Winters website has done some spectacular sleuthing and analysis on the composition and details of The Fairmont Collection. He's looked at the composition to-date...what might be coming out in the future....supply risks...possible origins...etc.

Check out the 2 most recent blog posts from December 2023 and the first one from January 2024:

https://raregoldcoins.com/blog?category=Market Blog

The Fairmont Collection appears to be in the neighborhood of 400,000 (!!) coins, one of the largest gold/U.S. coin hoards ever found.

But SB is NOT giving out information on the specifics of where it CAME from and how it was ASSEMBLED. You would hope that a firm that has David Bowers on its name would realize the importance of (eventually) giving out that information, given the importance to the numismatic community. If the risk to maximizing the sales proceeds isn't entirely in the past, it should be close.

 

Thanks for posting. Really valuable info. The vast majority of the gold coins (about 77%) are from the P mint. Second is the S mint with 16%. So, the value of coins from those mints for certain years and grades may go down. Denver with 6% is at some risk. Gold coins from other mints (CC, O, C and Dahlonega) are at very little risk of decline in value as the hoard makes its way to market.

Although it could be bad news for some collectors that have some of the gold issues in the hoard, it will be good news for collectors who haven't yet been able to afford them.

My guess is that Dave Bowers is writing a book, which may be finished, on the hoard. But it won’t be released until the last sale.

My wild speculation is that the hoard originated in Europe. Huge quantities of U.S. gold coins went there immediately after FDR called-in gold.

SB has been very clever in their marketing. Releasing the hoard over several years and giving parts of it sub-names maximized income to the consignor.

Cal

 

But isn't that in the past ?

If most of the coins (I'll have to re-read it, but if the bulk are already out) then the supply hits should have already taken place, no ?

True....IF more supply or the bulk of it is yet to hit. If that is still the case -- and I kind of speed-readed through the artcles -- then declines would be expected to have already hit....right?

But if the bulk of the 380K - 400K coins are already on the market, and if this guy's analysis is also now public, you'd think the damage was already done, right ?

I didn't think of that....that's a VERY unique perspective and one that would make sense. I assume he's a full partner in the firm and privvy to that information (has DB been involved in the marketing of the Fairmont Collection or written about it ? I've seen and heard nothing).

I've heard that too...but mostly anectdotal, nothing specific. I'll have to re-check the footnotes and other sources in Roger Burdette's Saint-Gaudens DE book which has probably the most up-to-date sources/info. on that kind of stuff.

My understanding was that anybody with large numbers of gold coins would probably be wealthy....could call the coins numismatic and part of a collection....and therefore NOT have to ship it overseas.

But really teed off many dealers and collectors and potential buyers who were getting frustrated by the drip-drip-drip of never-ending auctions.

It's going on 6 years now, right ? And depending on whether the bulk of the 400,000 coins or whatever it is are on the market or if it's a small % of them with more to come (excluding Details coins and uncertifiables)....you could have more price downside to come.

I haven't tracked the Fairmont Collection too closely, as the bulk are small denomination gold coins and only partially Liberty Head and Saint-Gaudens DEs.

 

I don’t think there is any way Dave Bowers can be a partner in Stack’s Bowers. SB is owned by Spectrum Group International, a publicly traded company (symbol SPGZ). It’s possible Dave owns stock in SPGZ. However, Dave came late to the company that bears his name because of some buyouts. In 2000, Bowers and Merena sold itself to Collectors Universe, best known for owning PCGS. At that point, Dave no longer had the rights to his own name as a numismatic business. In 2004, Collectors Universe sold Bowers and Merena to Spectrum, which it merged with Stack’s in 2011 to form Stack’s Bowers. Not sure whether Spectrum hired Dave before or after 2011, but either way, that action reunited Dave with a company bearing his name.

One sidenote is that when Collectors Universe sold Bowers and Merena to Spectrum, it retained the copyrights to B&M catalogs and some of their other publications.

Cal

 

I just assumed that the use of Bower's name implied he was a part-owner and/or had an interest in the firm.

Guess not.

 

SB just announced another sale of the Fairmont Collection to be held this spring. See link.

Cal

https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/a...-in-the-upcoming-spring-2024-auction?limit=96

 

I like when I can understand your answers

 

I enjoyed your answer

 

Yes. And the book

 

So who’s writing the book?

 

I assume Dave Bowers. Don't think he's ever used a writer.

Cal

 

He's getting up there in years. Had a co-writer on his LH DE book about a decade ago.

And has never done a 2nd Edition on his 2004 Whitman Red Book Double Eagle book. I think every other Whitman Red has 2nd or more editions except the DE book.

 

Part III of the Fairmont Collection analysis is now up:

https://raregoldcoins.com/blog/2024/2/5/fairmont-gold-pieces-part-iii-the-ungraded-fairmonts

This is one of the best analyses and series of articles (blogs) I have seen in my 15 years of doing lots of reading about coins. I'm not even particularly interested in the Fairmont Collection (not too many Saint-Gaudens though an upcoming sale has a few) as it is mostly Liberty Head DEs and smaller gold coins.

But the way the author tries to fill-in-the-blanks is fascinating.

 

I heard that the coins came from a large bank in Argentina. They were close to sending them to the smelter, but someone decided to check the numismatic value first.

I have seen a couple "Fairmont" 1838 (C and/or D mint) classic Head $5 Half Eagles that have "wheel marks" on them, which are burnout patches from the spinning rubber impeller wheel of a modern coin counter.

 

Could be, we may never know.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is mixture of various hoards to give it size/critical mass, though this Hoard is so massive they really didn't need to add 45 coins here, 36 there, 120 here, etc. The entire find or finds was estimated by the blogger at close to 9 tons !!

Can't imagine 1 person or family had that much gold a century ago.

 

There is a reason a certain numismatic fellow travelled to Argentina and did not return to CONUS.

 

Inquiring minds want to know !!