Indian Head 1859 Penny - opinions appreciated

Hi, I would love opinions from more experienced coin dudes about this Indian Head 1859 Penny.
Ebay #323753249764
Photos attached also.
Seller grades as BU.
Thanks

 

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Looks like it’s been cleaned. To me it’s a details coin. At that price I’d pass. JMHO

 

+1. Cleaned.

 

I was wondering if it had been cleaned. But only because it looks "too good". Do you have more reasons than that? Do you see any cleaning marks or anything like that?
Thanks.

 

Definitely cleaned....I wouldn't give it a BU. Maybe AU details

 

You can tell just by the appearance of the coin. It has what I call a fake shine....one that you can always tell with copper.

 

Even at AU it's not a bad price, but I don't want it if it's been cleaned. Can you show me how you know? What do I look for? Besides that it looks "TOO NICE"!

 

Thanks.
I guess I'll look for others of that date so I can compare and learn.

 

Also the dark toning around the devices. Usually a bad sign.

 

Here is a Coin Talk thread about detecting cleaned coins from a couple of years ago.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/how-to-tell-if-a-coin-has-been-cleaned.324592/

 

Like Lawtoad said above, dark toning or residue around the devices if its been dipped. If its been cleaned by rubbing or scrubbing with a cloth or brush you'll see fine hairlines from rubbing the coin. Most likely this one was dipped..or I'd say soaked in some kind of solution. This reduces the value by at least half.

 

Here’s a recent post from someone that purchased a coin from that same dealer. Look closely at the pictures.
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/1972-ddo-slab-grade.363482/

 

The lack of luster is a dead giveaway.

 

Lots of good pointers from you all. Thank you.
I need to learn more about luster.

 

Get yourself a fresh new quarter. Take it out into the sunlight and tilt it around. You will see radiating lines that catch the sun. Those radiating lines are the flow lines of the metal filling the die. Those flow lines are the luster. It’s an unmistakable thing once you attune you’re eyes to look for it. Harsh cleaning generally removes those flow lines. Makes for a pretty and shiny coin, but the surfaces are dead because the luster has been removed.

 

Thanks much!
I'm so glad I found cointalk! No idea how I did, though. I don't remember.

 

EF-AU sharpness, but it appears to have been polished.

One of the skills that one needs to grade coins and spot problem pieces is to be able to differentiate between mint luster and polishing. The easiest coin from which to learn mint luster is the Morgan Silver Dollar. The “cartwheel” luster that you see on a bright, Uncirculated dollar, when you swirl it around under a strong light, is mint luster.

Here’s a still photo of the effect. The bright spot on this coin moves uniformly around the coin as you swirl it the light. This is caused by the fact that the metal literally moves when the coin is struck. It takes over a 100 tons of pressure to strike a silver dollar.



Here is a Mint State 1859 Indian cent. It's harder to see on these coins, but they also have the mint luster swirl when you look at them under a strong light. Once you acquire this skill, you will be a much more savy coin buyer. This piece is now in an NGC MS-64 holder.

 

Good information from all of these posts @Rick B. It takes time to learn these very fine points, but hang in there and you will. Good luck.

 

For what it's worth, probably nothing, I wrote to the seller and he said "The coin has been conserved but has not been cleaned"

 

Well..... He isn’t an honest fellow. Just write him off your list of suppliers.