I found a match on VCoins. I now see it's a simple matter of reading the legend and finding the Duke. I picked this up off of the infamous auction site that will not be named but from a reputable dealer. It was just sold as a Venice Grosso 1278 -1280 AD. I have looked at a couple of hundred of these things on line and do see differences but can't find a reference that tells me what it all means. VENICE.Ranieri Zeno 1253-1268.AR.Grosso. ( 2.07g, 21.3mm, 6h) IC-XC, nimbate Christ enthroned holding book of gospels. Reverse.•RA• GENO• D/V/X - S.M.VENETI•, Doge standing left holding banner, Saint Mark, nimbate, standing right holding book of gospels. Ref:CNI VI pg.35.1.
Very nice grosso @alde Ive wanted to pick one up for a while, but keep falling back into my old collecting habits. Im not sure why I know this, or think I know this, but my understanding is that the name of the doge is always first, i.e. RA GENO on your coin. Then the legend will always have S.M. VENETI or some variation. The second part refers to Saint Mark and Venice.
Red, I am learning a bit more about them. I have been trying to pick up a couple of Medieval/Renaissance Italian references but they are all in Italian, broken down by state or city and very expensive. I have found a couple of online references but I love having the books. So far I have Monete Italiane Regionali Casa Savoia and Monete Italiane Regionali Napoli. They are surprisingly easy to figure out from the Italian text and are great references. It's a large set and most are over $100. I won't be buying all of them. I have also recently picked up on medieval and 4 or 5 renaissance Papal coins. They look pretty interesting. I will put something together to post on them fairley soon.
Yea, but in this case the dealer had it attributed 10 years too late which puts it with the wrong doge. I have learned to never trust a dealers attribution. I always look them up and go through the whole process myself. It's a big part of the enjoyment for me.
On the first side is an image of an enthroned Christ with the letters IC XC, Byzantine Greek for Jesus Christ (Venice started off in the early Middle Ages as an Eastern Roman, or Byzantine, outpost). On the other side is the then reigning DUX (or doge in the Venetian dialect) standing along side of the patron saint of Venice, SANCTUS MARCUS VENETI (Saint Mark of Venice). For dating purposes you will need a list of the doges of Venice (just Google that term) but reading the name from the coin for dating is not easy as several doges had the same name and within the same time frame. By the way, at least this coin is properly attributed. You have no idea how many times I have seen a Venetian Grosso offered to the unwary as a much rarer and more expensive but similar looking Byzantine silver.
Thanks Kevin. I still have a lot to learn. As similar as they all are it's still an interesting series from an important place and time.
There are times I wish i could fall down the rabbit hole of Venetian grossos, but other interests keep me to just this one (for now...): Italy - Venice Pietro Zani, r. 1205-1229 AR Grosso, 19.79 mm, 1.9 grams Obv.: [·+·]P·ZIANI· ·S·M.VENETI outside (Z retrograde), D/U/X down banner held between doge and St. Mark facing Rev.: [I¯C] X¯C across field, Christ enthroned facing Ref.: Similar to De Witt 3626 I would add more to help you in your search Alde, but it looks like you figured it out.
One bit of an admonition. The Venetian Grosso was so popular that it was copied by other powers, often times with so little alteration, that it may be difficult to pick up the copy from a genuine Venetian coin. In case you did not know this, "grosso" in Italian simply means large or hefty or big and that was because, compared to the silver pennies and denaros and deniers floating around, it was a noticeably larger coin. The late medieval "groat" would be the English equivalent.
Doug, The one difference I see between our coins is the small circle to the right of Christ's left foot on yours is in the field to the left of his shin on mine. I will try to find out what it means. It looks like another book is in order. Hope I can find one in English.
I would not get too hung up on it - a simple dot could be an indicator to the mint who the minter was, and many of these control marks were not recorded (or the records have bern lost). I’d check out this book if you already haven’t - it’s not a catalogue, but loads of good information on the Venetian mint: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/fitzs-medieval-book-review.286343/page-3#post-2833914
I just got that in the mail the day before yesterday from your recommendation. I have only briefly thumbed through it so far but it looks very good.
Another great resource on Italian coins is Corpus Nummorum Italicorum, the massive 20 volume work based on the collection of King Vittorio Emmanuele III. It is available online at www.numismaticadellostato.it/.../biblioteca/corpus The only problem is that it lists every variety found by the authors of every coin, including every tiny punctuation difference. If you are trying to find the CNI number of a particular coin, it can drive you up the wall. La biblioteca on line Corpus Nummorum Italicorum Primo tentativo di un catalogo generale delle monete medievali e moderne coniate in Italia e da italiani in altri paesi. Vol. I - Casa Savoia Ed. 1910, pp. 532, Vol. II - PIEMONTE-SARDEGNA (zecche d'oltremonti di Casa Savoia) Ed. 1911, pp. 506, Vol. III - LIGURIA - ISOLA DI CORSICA Ed. 1912, pp. 620, Vol. IV - LOMBARDIA (zecche minori) Ed. 1913, pp. 588, Vol. V - LOMBARDIA (Milano) Ed. 1914, pp. 474, Vol. VI - VENETO (zecche minori)- DALMAZIA - ALBANIA Ed. 1922, pp. 682, Vol. VII - VENETO (Venezia, Parte I - dalle origini a Marino Grimani) Ed. 1915, pp. 583, Vol. VIII - VENETO (Venezia, Parte II - da Leonardo Dona' alla chiusura della zecca) Ed. 1917, pp. 686, Vol. IX - EMILIA (Parte I) Parma e Piacenza Modena e Reggio Ed. 1925, pp. 792, Vol. X - EMILIA (Parte II) Bologna e Ferrara Ravenna e Rimini Ed. 1927, pp. 763, Vol. XI - TOSCANA (zecche minori) Ed. 1929, pp. 452, Vol. XII - TOSCANA (Firenze) Ed. 1930, pp. 508, Vol. XIII - MARCHE Ed. 1932, pp. 596, Vol. XIV - UMBRIA - LAZIO (zecche minori) Ed. 1933, pp. 295, Vol. XV - Roma, Parte I (dalla caduta dell' Impero d' Occidente al 1572) Ed. 1934, pp. 552, Vol. XVI - Roma, Parte II (dal 1572 al 1700) Ed. 1936, pp. 523, Vol. XVII - Roma, Parte III (dal 1700 al 1870) Ed. 1938, pp. 319, Vol. XVIII - ITALIA MERIDIONALE CONTINENTALE (zecche minori) Ed. 1939, pp. 411, Vol. XIX - ITALIA MERIDIONALE CONTINENTALE (Napoli, Parte I - dal ducato napoletano a Carlo V) Ed. 1940, pp. 427, Vol. XX - ITALIA MERIDIONALE CONTINENTALE (Napoli, Parte II - da Filippo II alla chiusura della zecca) Ed. 1943, pp. 699,
Talerman, that looks like a great reference and it can be downloaded in PDF too. A nice bonus. Thanknyou.
