I'm so embarassed to ask this...

If it was a friend I would tell them. If it was a seller I didn't know I would think it's fake. I generally try to treat people how I would want to be treated so if I was certain they had something but didn't know the value of, than I would tell them. Even if that meant I couldn't buy it.

 

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My perspectives as a dealer:

I would let them know the value of course.

I would let them make the price first.

I read this is the same as item 2.

But, how about this? I buy a coin I am not familiar with at all. I like the coin and price, the deal is struck (either with a seasoned dealer or not, makes no difference). A couple years go by (or maybe even a few hours, who knows?) and while researching it I find the $25 coin is actually worth, say $500? What would one do? Did I take advantage? Do I go back and try to give some more money to the seller? Am I greedy if I then resell it for the higher price? Morals apply to dealers, too, and may be a bit more convoluted.

 

If a dealer knows almost nothing about the coins he is selling I really have no problem not telling him what he has. I've got some remarkably good deals that way but every single time I've done it I've done it with the knowledge that I'm putting the onus of authentication completely onto myself because if a dealer cannot even come up with a basic attribution he can't be expected to have reliably authenticated a coin either. In this case I don't see the point of paying a price anywhere near what I would otherwise be willing to pay for the coin from a better source.

That said, if the dealer were a friend or a dealer whom it would be good to cultivate a good a relationship with I would probably opt for full disclosure and try to come to an agreement that works better for both of us. As someone who only collects a small subset of ancients, your average US/World coin dealer who occasionally stumbles across an ancient or two does not fit this bill and most of the ancient dealers I am friends with will reach out to me for help before they list a coin in my collecting area that they're unsure about.

 

Ok.
You did quote me and the other member, yes by name.
My original comment may not have been the best as JA pointed out. After thinking about it JA is correct and I should have held back my post but I just let it go.
I saw you quoted me and yes I assumed aimed at me.
So again I said something I probably wouln't say in the norm.
I don't often choose the right words but neither do you.
All is good at my end .

Hey I said my 1 year anniversary on CT was gonna be something different, and it was. I started the day with a warning

 

I had to hit that Like button, because I do like being made to think about ethical issues like this. I'm not always satisfied with the results, but I always feel like it's useful.

A couple of examples from my own experience:

I bought a multi-pound bag of cull coins from a jeweler on the opposite coast. It was accurately described and pictured in the auction. I paid less than $200. One of the coins was a holed and engraved trade dollar that turned out to be a proof-only issue. I got it authenticated at PCGS, and sold it for around $700. Did I owe something to the dealer who sold it to me? I don't think so, and I'd be surprised if anyone disagreed.

I bought a lot labeled as "1995 proof coins", BIN around $12 including shipping. It included a clad 1995 proof set and a 1995 proof ASE, which seems to trade around $50-60. Should I have sent more money to the seller, or told him to cancel the sale and relist with a more descriptive title? Maybe -- but I didn't.

Does buying underpriced BIN lots make me a bad person? I hope not, but maybe sometimes...?

 

Sorry, I disagree. I am pretty good with moderns, but I don't have a clue about ancients and I am not even remotely interested. Does it make me a numismatic moron?

What about Insider's dealer - who's like a friend to him? It doesn't seem he frequently deals with ancients so why should he know anything about that coin? Mike did the right thing.

 

It's like a brain surgeon doing heart surgery. They have the correct skills, but they don't have specific knowledge of the field. If you don't have knowledge of a specific subgroup of numismatics and want to fiddle around anyway, you should find a good friend who is and can advise you. Without specific knowledge there is a good chance somebody will get ripped off at some point (either buyer or seller.. whether it was nefarious or not).

I don't write ebay seller's and tell them, "I'm sorry. You have a Morgan dollar listed which is actually a very highly desirable VAM quadrupling it's price."; "Did you know that coin is a DDO?"; etc... Do you?

 

Once a person represents himself/herself as a dealer, it becomes their responsibility to value the goods or commodities that they sell, and price those items accordingly. It's not my responsibility, either legally or ethically, to debate them on whether or not their items are priced well or poorly relative to the marketplace.

If their items are priced too high, I can walk away or offer a price that is more within my budget or the item's value to me. If their items are priced accurately or lower than my budget, I'll buy those items without further discussion.

Non-dealer friends are very different, of course. My definition of "friend" is someone you would help in any situation that your own knowledge was greater than his or hers. Accordingly, I'd never knowingly take advantage of that friend with my knowledge that he or she lacks. Losing a friend isn't worth gaining money to me.

A dealer who's a friend? I'd probably tell him/her that I'd very much like to buy that coin, at that price, and ask if he's sure he wants to sell it to me. After that, it's up to him.

 

Next time I see him, I'm going to try to get it for $100 + my services now that he knows what it is actually worth. If the deal goes through, I'll finally have an ancient to post from my tiny collection that is not squirreled away where I cannot locate it at the moment due to a memory lapse.

Want proof of what to expect as you get old? While my wife is in Central America, I just stumbled across six gold First Spouse coins in a drawer the other day that I have absolutely no recollection of buying, would have no interest in ever buying, and no clue where or how they came into my possession! They will help pay my income tax this year so I may find those ancients around here yet.

 

Your wife may not be too happy to find you have sold the coins squirreled away to pay for her next trip to Central America.

 

She wants to go back and she is not even home yet. There is a smoking volcano on the horizon, friendly people, and great food. A few Americans live in the town and their money goes far. A one hundred mile ride from the airport was only $20 US. I'll see if she wants to post some photos.

Anyway, as I posted in the thread "Does your wife know you collect" or something like that - "What Coins?" I don't even know what I have anymore as I just buy what is interesting, unattributed, or too cheap. Example: colorful, engraved checks with beautiful vignettes and revenue stamped for $2 each. I don't know that dealer!

At the show in Orlando, I got some checks from National Banks dated prior to 1900, some PPC, one small greek bronze with a horse, and some tokens. Cannot say what else just in case the dealer is a member of CT and recognizes me.

 

Shoot.......never seen the 'wrath of Doug' invoked in the ancient forums........

Wonder how come that happened.........