I'm just not seeing it

ive had this 1909-S Likcoln for a few years now and finally sent it in for grading.

Came back AU details obverse cleaned.

Now I'm not going to say I'm a copper expert but this coin has great luster on both sides and I'm just not seeing the cleaning.

Can anyone see where this coin has been cleaned?

Before heading to NGC


After

 

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Nope! Send it in again.

 

It doesn't look like the same coin to me. The one in the NGC holder looks cleaned, but your earlier images don't look cleaned.

 

Maybe it's the lighting. Still unpacking so my coin lamps are still in a box somewhere.

 

NGC use special equipment to look at coins that are suspected of being cleaned. It actually informs them of what type of cleaning was done... so I have heard

 

If you look at this image, it shines like a " Shield " would. which means cleaned

 

The cheek and jaw looks worn on the high points. (well from the images provided) 1st and 3rd images.

 

I think a cleaning designation is proper. The first photo, shows a pink tinge and an odd distribution of minor corrosion process, the slabbed photo show a more obvious difference between the obv. and rev. surfaces.

 

Yea I'm not questioning the AU part but the cleaning is throwing me off.

But how does a cleaned coin still show almost full mint luster?

 

Thats more of a reason its cleaned, it should have to cart-wheel effect then ... Hope I said that right ...

 

Not to dive too far off topic but the label says the obverse has been "improperly cleaned". Is it possible to "properly" clean a coin? Using the term "improperly" just seems to conflict with the notion of coin collecting that it's never proper to clean coins. I know there's coin restoration, but that is a separate category and refers more to preservation than cleaning.

 

Restoration can be the same thing as properly cleaning a coin. Proper cleaning will leave no evidence of cleaning but improper cleaning will leave evidence. The advice not to clean coins exists because too many people damage the coin in the process so it should not be done unless you know what you're doing.

 

Looks like there's a little too much sheen on the forehead and cheek on coin in the picture in the NGC holder. The "before" pics look fine, though.

 

Crack and resend.

 

I'll get some better pics and a video up here when I get my camera stuff unpacked.

 

That's a tough one. It almost looks like it had a cleaning long ago and then toned up. That orange luster looking color that's coming through may be the evidence of cleaning. Proper cleaning to me means light, nonabrasive (or extremely limited) touch ups on a coin.

 

I would say that there is something that the naked eye cannot see, but can be seen through a low magnification microscope. Any marks at that level the grading companies can see. Since the coin is not overly expensive--there is obviously some wear--NCG does not have any reason to in any way mis-grade it. Not to say that they do. If you were to crack it open, as Weston says, NGC keeps a photo record. It is doubtful that it will go unnoticed as a resubmission. However, if you send it to ANACS or PCGS you might get a different opinion.

 

Help any?

 

I would personally give it another try. My avatar is heading back for a 5th time.