"Illegal" coin deal involving the world's most valuable coin?

9/14/2009 a Judge rule the langbord had there 4th amendment right take away.
Then the Fed can up with a John Doe filling.
And now were just waiting to see what the Judge rules on the John Doe:hammer: that the fact I have read in Coin World so far:kewl:

 

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Izzy told them he had sold nine of them. They recovered eight and knew that Farouk had the ninth so they declared that they had recovered all of them.

Of course they should have realized that something was wrong when Eliasberg asked if he could keep the tenth of the nine coins.

 

The difficulty I have is that since they were not monetized, how could they be exchanged by the mint cashier, or by any mint official legally.

Jim

 

Jim, I have seen it stated by one or more persons that the whole "monetized" argument is something that was concocted by the government, and didn't apply back then. I believe that the coins were already "coins" at the time they escaped the mint and their release was not illegal.

 

Mark is right on that. Back then they were considered to be coins when they were delivered by the coiner. They di not have to be sent to the Fed to become "monitized" and some of the new coins were commonly sent to the Mint's or the Treasury's "Cash window" where they could be exchanged for older coins by the general public. From my understanding some of the 33 double eagles WERE in the Cash window office during the window of opportunity when gold could not be paid out for paper but could exchanged for other gold, and the time about two weeks later when the paying out of gold for any reason was forbidden.

The question is how were the records kept in the cash window? Did they record the date and mint of the coins paid out, or just the amount so the books balanced? Are these record books available? If they are missing or if they just record amounts then that could give the benefit of doubt that the coins were acquired legally. Then the government would have to PROVE that the coins were stolen.

 

This sounds about as good as anyone could word it. Somehow they made it into a cashiers hands, and exchanged in a completely legal transaction. The government still had an argument up until ownership was legal once again, though. Since these were not considered collectable with numismatic value, they were in fact illegal to own in the government's eyes. The fact that they made such a big deal about them, made them all the more in high demand.

 

This was a listed exception to the recall: "(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins." Thus, the 1933 Saints should have been legal to own, with respect to the recall, at least.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Money & who you are or know helps

1# Olesn 1913 Liberty nickle just sold 3.7 million,that some how was made it way of the mint???? I do not rember the facts on this one,many because I don't like the Liberty nickle design
2# Being a King with political needs

3# to some it up it all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

The 1913 liberty Nickels were very different from the 1933 Saints. And the export license for the 1933 Farouk Saint was an error (by somone who was unaware of the government's efforts to confiscate the coins) that was not caught in time. The US later tried to get the coin back. These situations were not necessarily about the "money" at all.

 

great book... i recommend that everyone interested in the '33 double eagle read this. the author really did his homework on this one.

 

I enjoyed that book, but was absolutely enthralled with this one on the same topic of the 1933 Saints:

Double Eagle: The Epic Story of the World's Most Valuable Coin by Alison Frankel

 

i'll have to check that one out. thanks! :thumb:

 

Mark
the 1913 Olesn Liberty nickle just sold at auction for 3.7 million

 

I was aware of that. But it's circumstances really have nothing to do with the 1933 Saints.

 

At the time the export license was issued the government was not trying to confiscate the coins. That didn't occur until later

 

I do recall what you have quoted word for word, and all I can say is the judge will have to decide if these coins fall in that category of "rare and unusual." I certainly hope he does.

 

I seriously doubt that the judge will be basing his ruling on that particular issue. Rather, it will likely be based on which party has the burden of proof and the determination as to whether the coins did or could have left the mint legally. That is a separate matter from whether a citizen who had gold was required to turn it in.

 

Then My belief is the judge will side with the Langbord family, and the coins will be going up for auction one by one after being graded and slabbed.

 

The coins have already been graded and encapsulated by NGC. And I predict that there will be a settlement, as opposed to a trial.

 

Graded yes, put in holders yes, slabbed or encapsulated NO. The current holders are not sealed and the coins can be removed from them and put back into them.