"Illegal" coin deal involving the world's most valuable coin?

If Swift exchanged gold of equal value to obtain 1933 Saints, depending on the date(s) of the transaction(s) it would not necessarily be illegal.

 

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My guess is they have accurate records in terms of amount of bullion / face value, since they reimbursed owners and surely have a record of how much cash was disbursed.

The federales probably had little interest in date / mintmark at the time; it was all about the bullion.

For that reason, there are several Saint Gaudens $20 dates with fairly high mintages but very low survival rates. Quite valuable, of course.

 

I don't understand the connection between the record keeping and your comment about certain date Saints having high mintages, but low survival rates???

 

...and therein lies the bone of contention, yes ? Isn't that the Langbords' claim ?

I don't follow this closely, but I seem to recall that the burden of proof had shifted to the government. Since the exact facts are hard to prove, that favors the ultimate release of the Langbord coins.

 

Perhaps it would have been better phrased if I had said we can't use contemorary record keeping as an indicator of today's actual rarity. If they had kept rigorous records of redeemed date / mintmark, we could say things like "they minted 448,000, but siezed 447,900", thus deducing a maximum survival of 100 pieces.

 

So you are saying that the mint cashier was not necessarily making an "illegal" exchange? If so, then why would the Secret Service have confiscated the 9 examples years ago?

 

There are at least two books written about the 1933 Double Eagle,
both are quite interesting.

Alison Frankel, Double Eagle: the epic story of the world's most valuable coin, 2006

David Tripp, Illegal tender : gold, greed, and the mystery of the lost 1933 Double Eagle, 2004

 

Thanks.

 

Correct, that is what I'm saying. I believe that, for whatever reason, the secret service was obsessed with the 1933 Saints and overstepped their authority. Swift was known as a bad apple, but there was never any legal proof that he had obtained the coins illegally - it was merely assumed.

 

my 2 cents

There one think that very odd Izzy Swift/Langbord family coins. last year all 10 of them tour the USA as a part of the ANA Shows.
How can evident on a on going trial leave the court room???

I think the langbord should get there coin back.as there own records can tell what happen in 1933.and this new John Doe complaint is just a way to see if they can us up the Langbord lawyer fee's& bankrupt them.

 

True about Mr. Gillio...didn't mean to put him into that light.....but I can't seem to edit the post.

 

"......almost certainly......" So, noone is certain.

 

This is an interesting topic for sure.

My thought is, that since the 33's were never monetized and never officially released from the mint, it would not be legal for a person to have one. I am guessing this notion is what the Secret Service has been operating under all these years.

 

In 1944 the Secret services interviewed Izzy if I rember correctly and gave them back.
But why in 2006 they change their minds??? there is 7.8 million of rezones I guess

 

Actually at the time, in each instance that a seller of a 1933 Saint was interviewed/questioned, eventually, Swift ended up being identified as the source.

 

While they were never officially released, there was a window of opportunity where citizens would have been able to legally trade their gold for them. We don't and probably wont ever know if that happened, but it could have.

 

I agree!!
? but why from 1944-2006 did not get them back then?they knew Izzy had them.
One more thing why is evidence in in a on going court action.tour the USA last year & how did Ngc get to grade 4 of them.
there to many story about the 10 1933,I would just like to know the real fact for once:kewl:.

 

They did not know Izzy Swift had additional specimens until they surfaced a few years agao. NGC graded all 10 of them, not just 4.

 

Mark I agree.
but there evidences in on going court action.Ngc has had them the ANA tour last year.Evidence should stay in the court room till the case has been resolved.
but how is evidences from a on going case getting so much mileage??

7.8 million rezones???

 

The case has not gone (and may not ever go to) trial, so there is no court room or evidence at this point.