I'll never get so lucky again. Three stage restoration of 3-Cent Silver.

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by C-B-D, Nov 2, 2017.

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  1. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Before Pics: PCGS UNC Details, Environmental Damage (seller's pics edited together):
    s-l1600b-vert.jpg

    Let me preface this by saying that I don't know why I bought this coin, other than it was simply an impulse buy, and I thought it was going pretty cheap on eBay. It was at auction and I won it for $137.50. My initial thoughts in-hand was, "How can this be environmental damage when there is no gradual specks or color changes? I mean, it has jet black areas and lustrous white areas and nothing else in between!" I considered sending it to NCS for conservation along with a few Indian Head Cents I had, but thought I'd give it a try myself and at least see what was underneath that black stuff (IF I could get it off at all, which I wasn't sure I could). Anyway, it took 2 dips and a little careful Q-tip work. After the first dip, the dark areas went from black to light brown/red. Here's a pic of the coin after the first dip, which was completely undiluted:
    s-l1600.jpg

    I let it rest for a day, unsure if it would grade even in this state. I was afraid I would burn the luster right off this thing. But the next morning I carefully touched a little more dip with a Q-tip (this time diluted dip), and WOW! Most of the brownish red color lifted off and there was just a touch of iridescent reddish color, when you looked at it at the right angle. I searched it for hairlines. There were none. It hadn't been harshly cleaned. So what the heck, I sent it to PCGS and got it in a Secure Plus holder.

    Now, PCGS MS64! :eek::jawdrop::wideyed::woot: No, I'm not kidding. This is the same coin! TrueView image. Results came in last night. PCGS Retail is $675.
    34239676_max.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
    C-B-D, Nov 2, 2017
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  3. Youngcoin

    Youngcoin Everything Collector

    Wow :D.

    Thanks,
    Jacob
     
    Youngcoin, Nov 2, 2017
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  4. Nathan401

    Nathan401 Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    Great clashes!! I just love winning stories .
     
    Nathan401, Nov 2, 2017
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  5. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Very nice. Cool clash.
     
    ldhair, Nov 2, 2017
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  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    There's a simple answer, it's because heavy, dark toning is considered environmental damage.

    In other words, a coin does not have to come into contact with some other material for the result to be considered environmental damage. Heavy, dark toning, all by itself is environmental damage.
     
    GDJMSP, Nov 2, 2017
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  7. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Motor City Car Capital

    My question is: " What Will The Re-toning Look Like In Those Areas That Were Blacken " .
     
    Rick Stachowski, Nov 2, 2017
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  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Fair question. Simple answer, they will tone differently than the rest of the coin. Different in what way ? They'll probably tone less, and less quickly.

    Next question would be why ? And again the answer is simple, it's because toning is dependent upon luster. And the more luster there is, the higher the quality of luster is, the more susceptible to toning a given area is.
     
    GDJMSP, Nov 2, 2017
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  9. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Congrats
     
    Treashunt, Nov 2, 2017
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  10. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    What's in the dip?
     
    Michael K, Nov 2, 2017
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  11. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    20171102_095245.jpg
     
    C-B-D, Nov 2, 2017
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  12. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Motor City Car Capital

    Next question: Is it possible the only toning will be, or come from the cleaned areas .
     
    Rick Stachowski, Nov 2, 2017
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  13. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    They will tone last, since they're already somewhat "protected" by the color still visible. The rest of the coin is in danger of toning suddenly from minimal environmental intrusion, since the surfaces are completely stripped. I'd do my best to keep it under airtight conditions if I owned it.

    Nice piece of conservation. :D
     
    SuperDave, Nov 2, 2017
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  14. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Motor City Car Capital

    How long should one wait to have it put in a airtight, after cleaning .
    Also will putting it in a airtight to soon after cleaning hurt, or change the appearance of the coin we see now ..
     
    Rick Stachowski, Nov 2, 2017
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  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    As Dave said, the entire coin has been dipped, and freshly dipped coins are especially susceptible to toning. The only time a coin is more susceptible to toning is when it is freshly minted.

    The areas that were dark on the coin are the areas that the least susceptible to toning now. This is because some small amount of toning still exist there, and because those areas have the least amount of luster.

    You see, some of the luster on the coin has already been destroyed, or lessened if you prefer, by the toning itself. That's what toning has done by the time it turns black. And if allowed to progress far enough, eventually it will destroy all luster until none remains.

    I suspect the entire coin had a good deal more heavy black toning on it at one point, before CBD ever obtained the coin. And it's previous owner, or one of them, dipped the coin then. But, they didn't get all of the black off the coin - and that's the way it was when CBD got it.

    The entire scenario would go like this. The coin was allowed to tone until the toning became heavy and very dark - black even. In those areas that were black a certain amount of the toning was lessened or destroyed. Then the coin was dipped, again before CBD got the coin. Then CBD dipped the coin, twice. Both of those dips removed additional luster. Then CBD treated the dark areas only with more dip to lighten the color (remove more toning) even more.

    This means that the central areas of the coin, the areas that we saw as black in the first pics, have had more luster removed from them than the rest of the coin. And because of that, and because there is still a small amount of toning there, those areas will tone less, and more slowly than the rest of the coin.
     
    GDJMSP, Nov 2, 2017
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  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Protecting the coin from the air as quickly as possible after the dipping process is complete is the best thing you can do for the coin.
     
    GDJMSP, Nov 2, 2017
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  17. coinsareus10

    coinsareus10 Well-Known Member

    The other option would be to sell the coin and take
    your profit.
     
    coinsareus10, Nov 2, 2017
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  18. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    Nice job!! It turned out well for you.
     
    jtlee321, Nov 2, 2017
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  19. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Motor City Car Capital

    I agree . I have a feeling down the road, this coin will turn into a altered surface and Pcgs will have to pay for their mistake for giving this coin a clean bill of health .
     
    Rick Stachowski, Nov 2, 2017
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  20. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    Next time I go to the race track I’ll take you with me.
     
    Santinidollar, Nov 2, 2017
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  21. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Three stages to a true cleaning (read conservation if it makes you feel better), 1) surface preparation 2) cleaning and 3) surface passivation or protection. BTW...I am sincerely impressed.
     
    Kentucky, Nov 2, 2017
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