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Message:: [QUOTE="Insider, post: 8333992, member: 24314"]Kentucky, posted: "Really difficult to know what of this is yours...maybe just me."   No, lots of folks don't like it and others cannot figure it out either.  Sorry about that but it is easier for me to interject [stuff] at the point of comment.  So, all the following are my comments: Insider, posted this: Authenticity is an absolute fact. So there can only be three choices.  They are: 1. Genuine.  <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie50" alt=":happy:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> 2. Not Genuine.  <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie50" alt=":happy:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />    a. Counterfeit.    b. Altered genuine coin. 3. No opinion.  <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie50" alt=":happy:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />   a. Opinion divided.    b. Unable to tell due to coin's condition.    c. We don't want to risk an opinion. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie3" alt=":(" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />  Insider replied to a member's post by inserting this:  [If anyone reading this thread does not know what "authenticity" means - including all coins, tokens, metals, paper money, purses, stamps, jewels, and yes, even ANCIENTS, they <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie30" alt=":bucktooth:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> probably should not be posting <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie66" alt=":muted:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> in the thread.  However, you <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie26" alt=":bookworm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie33" alt=":cigar:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> have done something very necessary that I <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie45" alt=":eggface:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie46" alt=":facepalm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie25" alt=":blackeye:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> or someone else should have done at the beginning - DEFINE THE TOPIC. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie10" alt=":oops:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie87" alt=":sorry:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />]  [I think everyone, including me can agree with what you wrote below.  Unfortunately, in my rush to leave the thread yesterday, I used the word "fact" to emphasize that there is ONLY ONE ACTUAL "TRUTH" about a coin's authenticity.  Humans, living at a later time, TRY THEIR BEST to determine that "truth" often with mixed or incorrect conclusions.<img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie3" alt=":(" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />] [100% AUTHENTICITY  IS A "FACT."  Humans, may not be able to determine it at some point in time. "Expert" opinions have been known to change both ways.] [I consider this to be your personal "fluff" used to cloud the subject of authenticity.  We don't need to "prove" the sun is in the sky.  That's why we can say in the business: "Some coins are self-authenticating."  I'll bet you and other CT members own a bunch of them! <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie85" alt=":smuggrin:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />] And finally, I can get to the subject of this thread: If TPGs guaranteed authenticity for ancients would you use them? ________________________________________________________ The following is my opinion on the OP's original question. 1. Ancient coins are a "special" part of numismatics.  They cover a much larger area and time span than US coins.  They have been collected longer and counterfeited longer.  Without specialization, there is more to learn so the field is much more difficult to master with any degree of competency including the language barrier and condition of preservation.   2. Ancient coins were collected long before our country was discovered.  Therefore, there will probably be more knowledge about them (even with the Internet and publications) in the rest of the world.  3. Except for those interested in counterfeits, it is best to collect genuine coins so in this day and age authentication is highly recommended when collecting popular coins.   NEVERTHELESS, some folks don't like slabs!Aside from that, here is the problem as I see it:  A. Any serious student of numismatics should be able to identify what they collect.  B. Any serious student of numismatics should be able to grade anything they collect and also have a reasonable idea of its value. C. Authentication is something that is more difficult even for serious students of numismatics, expert dealers, museums, and European Banks.  So, TPGS are needed. Unfortunately, without a guarantee of authenticity, as is required for TPGS's dealing with US and world coins, you are paying for nothing more than you can get from a reputable dealer. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie57" alt=":jawdrop:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie46" alt=":facepalm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> However, you do get an attractive plastic case with expert opinions on the label.  <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie104" alt=":yawn:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> So, I'll circle back again to the question.  Would more folks use NGC if there were a guarantee of authenticity?  IMHO, they would be stupid not to!  Additionally, IMHO, NGC would be stupid to offer that guarantee since they do very well and get away without it!  <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> Replies to this welcome.  My answers to them will appear as [stuff] between the lines.[/QUOTE]

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