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<p>[QUOTE="Ian, post: 32721, member: 283"]Hi Scott,</p><p><br /></p><p>Hey mate, I never once mentioned brass. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><br /></p><p>I'll tell you what though, by the time they got to the `Constitutional Monarchy' period, some mints were using melted down scrap metals to make many of the 3 + 6 + 12 denier coins and the 2 sols from. Some mints only used copper (I think) while some apparently didn't use copper at all (AFAIK). The french have always been great coinage `recyclers' <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie1" alt=":)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />. my references speak of the coins as being made from either `cuivre' (copper) or `metal de cloche' (bell metal). The reality is that there is some great variance in the consistency of the metal mix used to make these coins. Brass is normally referred to as `cuivre jaune' ( yellow copper), and although brass may have ended up in the `mix' the coins weren't deliberately made as a `brass'. The variation in colour can be quite dramatic though when you see a few coins from different mints side by side. I've got them ranging from nice brown / red copper, through an ill looking taupe colour, to full rich yellow brass. </p><p><br /></p><p>Other than that the 15 sols, 30 sols, 3 livres and six livres were silver. The 24 livres were gold.</p><p><br /></p><p>As to `errors'. The whole concept of `quality control' vanished along with the heads of many of the intelligentsia of the time. Louis XVI was not the first to lose his head, and the designer of Le genie de France on the reverse of this coinage was also due to have his removed. However, he managed to escape from the Bastille and legend has it that he bribed the guards using an essaie of the gold 24 livres he had managed to secrete somewhere in his clothing. The story of his miraculous escape has in turn given rise to these coins being often referred to as `lucky Angels'. If the story is true then it certainly was a lucky Angel for him.</p><p><br /></p><p>The base metal coinage commonly has missing stops, the cedilla's on the c's are missing, many aren't fully struck up, flans are pretty rough etc etc etc. Generally a real hotch potch of possible errors are to be found including blundered legends, all of which are collectable but the majority of the common errors don't command any premium as they tend to be the `norm'. Your coin however is rather dramatic as both a double strike and an off centre one at that. I'm sure that it would fetch a premium with some french collectors but nowhere near the kind of money that US error coins tend to fetch. You can see that yours is from Paris mint (top of the letter`A' just under the bust). It was also the second issue of 1792. Beside the date on the reverse is the number of the year of the revolution. For 1792 the number was either 3 or 4 (total mintage for both for Paris was 7,828,080). The last coinage struck of that type would be 1793. 5. De La Lib (5th year of liberation). </p><p><br /></p><p>Hope some of the foregoing helps or otherwise rings a bell for you ;-)</p><p><br /></p><p>Ian[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Ian, post: 32721, member: 283"]Hi Scott, Hey mate, I never once mentioned brass. :-) I'll tell you what though, by the time they got to the `Constitutional Monarchy' period, some mints were using melted down scrap metals to make many of the 3 + 6 + 12 denier coins and the 2 sols from. Some mints only used copper (I think) while some apparently didn't use copper at all (AFAIK). The french have always been great coinage `recyclers' :-). my references speak of the coins as being made from either `cuivre' (copper) or `metal de cloche' (bell metal). The reality is that there is some great variance in the consistency of the metal mix used to make these coins. Brass is normally referred to as `cuivre jaune' ( yellow copper), and although brass may have ended up in the `mix' the coins weren't deliberately made as a `brass'. The variation in colour can be quite dramatic though when you see a few coins from different mints side by side. I've got them ranging from nice brown / red copper, through an ill looking taupe colour, to full rich yellow brass. Other than that the 15 sols, 30 sols, 3 livres and six livres were silver. The 24 livres were gold. As to `errors'. The whole concept of `quality control' vanished along with the heads of many of the intelligentsia of the time. Louis XVI was not the first to lose his head, and the designer of Le genie de France on the reverse of this coinage was also due to have his removed. However, he managed to escape from the Bastille and legend has it that he bribed the guards using an essaie of the gold 24 livres he had managed to secrete somewhere in his clothing. The story of his miraculous escape has in turn given rise to these coins being often referred to as `lucky Angels'. If the story is true then it certainly was a lucky Angel for him. The base metal coinage commonly has missing stops, the cedilla's on the c's are missing, many aren't fully struck up, flans are pretty rough etc etc etc. Generally a real hotch potch of possible errors are to be found including blundered legends, all of which are collectable but the majority of the common errors don't command any premium as they tend to be the `norm'. Your coin however is rather dramatic as both a double strike and an off centre one at that. I'm sure that it would fetch a premium with some french collectors but nowhere near the kind of money that US error coins tend to fetch. You can see that yours is from Paris mint (top of the letter`A' just under the bust). It was also the second issue of 1792. Beside the date on the reverse is the number of the year of the revolution. For 1792 the number was either 3 or 4 (total mintage for both for Paris was 7,828,080). The last coinage struck of that type would be 1793. 5. De La Lib (5th year of liberation). Hope some of the foregoing helps or otherwise rings a bell for you ;-) Ian[/QUOTE]
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