ICG And HSN'S Mike Mezack Part Ways? "There are 3 Major Grading Services"

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Norsk64, Jun 3, 2018.

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Do You Consider ICG To Be A Major Grading Company?

  1. Yes

    52.2%
  2. No

    36.2%
  3. Not Even Close

    11.6%
  1. John Skelton

    John Skelton Morgan man!

    Yeah, we don't even mess with metrics.

    Except for 9mm ammo.
     
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  3. Sturgil S

    Sturgil S New Member

    Sorry I misread your comment.
     
  4. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    I agree with pretty much all that. The "problem" with Whitman books for me ONLY occurs when someone wants to ascribe ANA's imprimatur to them. Yes, Whitman IS now the ANA's Official Supplies provider (Makes it hard to get Dansco stuff at summer ANA shows - jus' sayin'.) but for lack of a more precise term, Whitman books tend to be "consumer" oriented. When the ANA wants to really put their "stamp of approval" on educational materials, they self-publish, as they did with the work I referenced above.

    It probably shouldn't be this way, but it mostly is - there is a "soft wall" between truly specialist material and consumer/collector material. It is lessening some. The specialty so-called Red Books (the ones on a single series) or the MegaRed are "bridge publications". But the real high end stuff doesn't have enough of an audience for Whitman to handle it. Even the modernized Overton volume isn't under their umbrella, and Bust Halves do have quite a following. And its not even necessary to mention their lack of "world" material. My Swiss coin guide was written in Switzerland. Ditto the U.K. (Spink), and France, and even Russia. I had to teach myself the Russian alphabet. I get to Kolbe and Fanning auctions from time to time, also.

    You're right, Mike. The first words out of Brain Silliman's mouth when I took his grading course at Orlando (being offered again in Philly in August) WAS, "In mint state coins, we don't so much 'grade' them as 'appraise' them." He then spent over 15 hours over two days teaching us how to do that. He passed out the Whitman so-called "ANA Standards" book [7th edition], and within 5 minutes, we ignored it.

    Is that "fair" to homebound collectors who never get to major shows? I guess not, but sometimes learning one's craft well requires the expense of time and airfare. And not just to sleep outside on damp concrete to wait in line for an overpriced oversold piece of gold either.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  5. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    And we're on the verge of losing even 35mm film. :pics::(
     
  6. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    mikenoodle, posted: "The current system of grading Mint State coins is not working very well, but it’s the best we have for now. I would welcome innovation in this arena, but I don’t have any suggestions."

    I do, but nothing I haven't posted before.

    "An argument that is not being made here is that TPGs don’t really grade Mint State coins as much as they (appraise) value them. The problem is that people try to make it hard science when it’s largely subjective. I also agree with a key point made by Insider [??] that the numbers on the slab are not as important (nor even always grounded in reality) as the relative rank of the coins from top to bottom. (insert 5 emojis here)."

    Actually, I didn't write that. I was quoting the guys who buy million dollar 1804 dollars. I don't like the idea. 1, :facepalm: 2, :arghh: 3,:grumpy: 4, :banghead: 5, :D and one for good measure 6, :hilarious:

    V. Kurt Bellman, posted: "You're right, Mike. The first words out of Brain Silliman's mouth when I took his grading course at Orlando (being offered again in Philly in August) WAS, "In mint state coins, we don't so much 'grade' them as 'appraise' them." He then spent over 15 hours over two days teaching us how to do that. He passed out the Whitman so-called "ANA Standards" book [7th edition], and within 5 minutes, we ignored it."

    And that's why it is extremely difficult for the majority of folks who don't buy and sell coins with the big dealers will never have the skills to grade coins "commercially." For example, take a 64+ white coin with a clean cheek but many marks and let it develop a beautiful toning and now it has the value of a 66! :wacky:
     
    Norsk64 and thomas mozzillo like this.
  7. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    Yes, since I am a "toning hatah", I have to "net that stuff out", and yeah, it's annoying.
     
  8. 40_mila_kokkina

    40_mila_kokkina Active Member

    ICG seems okay as a grading service but their holder isn't too good. Lots of them don't react well with the coins. I've seen older soap dish NGC holders ruin many coins, the blue ANACS holder make many coins tarnish, some with the old PCI holders.
     
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