Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
I think I may have found a really really really rare type...
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Herodotus, post: 4585941, member: 111387"]I recently acquired a large lot that included a bunch of Greek fractionals in the mix. Some of them are extremely small. I mean hemitartemorion small. I likely won't be able to start to attribute some of them until I dig out the old microscope that I inherited from my grandfather decades ago. A few of the more worn ones may remain unknown.</p><p><br /></p><p>A teaspoon full of the coins, are a tad larger (in the 6-12mm range),and those with clear details can be made out with the naked eye under decent light.</p><p><br /></p><p>So, going through the pile, I found a cool Diobol from Mysia, Lampsakos that features a Janiform female head on the obverse and a helmeted Athena (in an incuse square) on the reverse. It's a pretty nice coin with decent details -- aVF imho. I may post a picture of it later when I get around to it, but that coin is not what this thread is about. I will instead post another example (that is not my coin) for ease to show the type.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1135666[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Picking through the pile, I noticed another similar coin, but much more worn. At first I thought that it showed a single bust on both the obverse and reverse. </p><p><br /></p><p>The reverse looked like a helmeted Athena and I couldn't really make out the portrait on the obverse until I tilted the coin a little bit, and then realized that it too was a Janiform head.</p><p><br /></p><p>Here it is:</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1135668[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>It weighs 1.13g, 9mm -- which would put it somewhere in the Diobol denomination?</p><p><br /></p><p>Ok, so on the search I went. The Lampsakos coin that I have has Athena facing right, and I couldn't find any examples of that type with Athena facing left. It was then I stumbled onto this coin(that there is only one example of (with a picture)that I could find on the internets).</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1135669[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>Cabinet W</p><p>ISLANDS off TROAS, Tenedos. Circa 490-480 BC</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Triton XV, Lot: 1002.</b> Estimate $175000.</p><p>Sold for $180000. This amount does not include the buyer’s fee.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><b>ISLANDS off TROAS, Tenedos. </b>Circa 490-480 BC. AR Didrachm (19mm, 8.94 g, 9h). Janiform head: on the left, a bearded male face to left; on the right, a female face to right; both have archaic, almond-shaped facing eyes, both wear a stephane, and both share a disc earring with a rosette pattern and a double-curved pendant; their combined neck is encircled by a necklace of pearls / TEN-E (retrograde), Bearded male head to left, wearing a Corinthian helmet and a pearl necklace; above to left, inscription; all within incuse square. BMC 8 = Traité I, 630, pl. XIV, 9 var. (left Janiform head without beard). Extremely rare. Lightly toned and of superb late Archaic-early Classical style; a magnificent coin of great beauty. Slightly porous surfaces, <i>otherwise</i> nearly extremely fine.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><i>Ex Nomos 1 (6 May 2009), lot 95.</i></p><p><br /></p><p><i> The early coinage of Tenedos is quite complex. It seems to begin in the last quarter of the 6th century with didrachms that bear a male/female janiform head, very similar to the one on this coin, but, on the reverse, a double-axe, a pelekys, and a retrograde inscription giving the city’s name (as BMC pl. XVII, 2 = Traité I, 622, pl. XVI 2 = ACGC 109). The identity of the two faces on the obverse is rather controversial: it might be the mythical couple of Tenes, son of Cycnus the king of Colone, and his young step-mother Philonome, who had an affair and were condemned to be enclosed in a chest and thrown into the sea. They landed on the island of Leucophrys and Tenes became its ruler; the island’s name was then changed in his honor. However, other versions suggest that the two people in the box were Tenes and his sister Hemithea. The ancients were puzzled by the coin types as well: one ancient source suggests that they refer to an archaic law that condemned adulterous couples to be executed using a double axe! Elsewhere it is proposed that the double axe refers to a similar shape found on the shell of a crab that lived in the waters off Tenedos! It is more likely that what we have is probably related to a local cult about which no record survives: however, by the end of the 5th century, and from then on, the male head wears a laurel wreath, thus, almost certainly indicating that the heads were then Zeus and Hera.</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>In any case, this early coinage, with the double-axe on the reverse, seems to have been replaced by a much rarer second coinage, of which the present piece is the finest known. The simple retrograde legend was retained, but the axe was replaced by the helmeted head of a warrior (assuming the heads on the obverse are divinities, this could be Tenes; Wroth actually thought that the head on the heavily worn BM example was that of Athena, on the analogy of the contemporary and very similar silver coinage of Lampsakos, which bore a Janiform female head and a helmeted head of Athena). Quite probably the great similarity between the silver issues of Tenedos and Lampsakos is what seems to have convinced the authorities on Tenedos to return to their earlier double-axe reverse type, along with a more complete legend, in order to avoid any confusion.</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>The style of this coin is particularly fine. The heads have fully frontal eyes and the so-called archaic smile is most apparent; yet this coin was clearly produced at the end of the Archaic period, with the female head being very reminiscent of those of Athena found on the Starr Group I issues of Athens, thus dating it to the 490s or 480s BC. This important janiform head is also very reminiscent of the double-head kantharoi that were produced in Athens in the late 6th and earlier 5th centuries - in fact the combination of male and female elements was particularly popular with contemporary potters and vase painters.</i></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><font size="6">WTF! $180,000!!!</font></p><p><font size="6"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4">First off, can I get some confirmation on here that my coin is the same type?</font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4">Granted my coin is not a Didrachm and it is not even in the same hemisphere to being as detailed as the above referenced coin.</font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4">My coin could be considered 'Fine' at best, but I admit my cell phone pictures do suck, and it is a little better in hand.</font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4">So please my fellow CoinTalk members. Help confirm what I have here, and if it is what I believe it to be. Can any of you find any other references to this type and/or in the diobol denomination. </font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4">There is mention of the British Museum posessing a worn example:</font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4"><b>SELECT GREEK AND ROMAN COINS.</b></font></p><p><font size="4">Period I. A.(Plates 1-3)</font></p><p><font size="4">B.C. 700-480</font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4">Plate 2. 18. Lampsacus. AR. <i>Obv.</i> Janiform female head. <i>Rev.</i> Head of Pallas within an incuse square. Wt. 82 grs.</font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4">A coin of fine archaic style, probably as early as B.C. 480</font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4">ACsearch, Coin Archives only reference the above (TRITON XV)example. Wildwinds has nothing.</font></p><p><font size="4"><br /></font></p><p><font size="4">TIA.</font>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Herodotus, post: 4585941, member: 111387"]I recently acquired a large lot that included a bunch of Greek fractionals in the mix. Some of them are extremely small. I mean hemitartemorion small. I likely won't be able to start to attribute some of them until I dig out the old microscope that I inherited from my grandfather decades ago. A few of the more worn ones may remain unknown. A teaspoon full of the coins, are a tad larger (in the 6-12mm range),and those with clear details can be made out with the naked eye under decent light. So, going through the pile, I found a cool Diobol from Mysia, Lampsakos that features a Janiform female head on the obverse and a helmeted Athena (in an incuse square) on the reverse. It's a pretty nice coin with decent details -- aVF imho. I may post a picture of it later when I get around to it, but that coin is not what this thread is about. I will instead post another example (that is not my coin) for ease to show the type. [ATTACH=full]1135666[/ATTACH] Picking through the pile, I noticed another similar coin, but much more worn. At first I thought that it showed a single bust on both the obverse and reverse. The reverse looked like a helmeted Athena and I couldn't really make out the portrait on the obverse until I tilted the coin a little bit, and then realized that it too was a Janiform head. Here it is: [ATTACH=full]1135668[/ATTACH] It weighs 1.13g, 9mm -- which would put it somewhere in the Diobol denomination? Ok, so on the search I went. The Lampsakos coin that I have has Athena facing right, and I couldn't find any examples of that type with Athena facing left. It was then I stumbled onto this coin(that there is only one example of (with a picture)that I could find on the internets). [ATTACH=full]1135669[/ATTACH] Cabinet W ISLANDS off TROAS, Tenedos. Circa 490-480 BC [B]Triton XV, Lot: 1002.[/B] Estimate $175000. Sold for $180000. This amount does not include the buyer’s fee. [B]ISLANDS off TROAS, Tenedos. [/B]Circa 490-480 BC. AR Didrachm (19mm, 8.94 g, 9h). Janiform head: on the left, a bearded male face to left; on the right, a female face to right; both have archaic, almond-shaped facing eyes, both wear a stephane, and both share a disc earring with a rosette pattern and a double-curved pendant; their combined neck is encircled by a necklace of pearls / TEN-E (retrograde), Bearded male head to left, wearing a Corinthian helmet and a pearl necklace; above to left, inscription; all within incuse square. BMC 8 = Traité I, 630, pl. XIV, 9 var. (left Janiform head without beard). Extremely rare. Lightly toned and of superb late Archaic-early Classical style; a magnificent coin of great beauty. Slightly porous surfaces, [I]otherwise[/I] nearly extremely fine. [I]Ex Nomos 1 (6 May 2009), lot 95.[/I] [I] The early coinage of Tenedos is quite complex. It seems to begin in the last quarter of the 6th century with didrachms that bear a male/female janiform head, very similar to the one on this coin, but, on the reverse, a double-axe, a pelekys, and a retrograde inscription giving the city’s name (as BMC pl. XVII, 2 = Traité I, 622, pl. XVI 2 = ACGC 109). The identity of the two faces on the obverse is rather controversial: it might be the mythical couple of Tenes, son of Cycnus the king of Colone, and his young step-mother Philonome, who had an affair and were condemned to be enclosed in a chest and thrown into the sea. They landed on the island of Leucophrys and Tenes became its ruler; the island’s name was then changed in his honor. However, other versions suggest that the two people in the box were Tenes and his sister Hemithea. The ancients were puzzled by the coin types as well: one ancient source suggests that they refer to an archaic law that condemned adulterous couples to be executed using a double axe! Elsewhere it is proposed that the double axe refers to a similar shape found on the shell of a crab that lived in the waters off Tenedos! It is more likely that what we have is probably related to a local cult about which no record survives: however, by the end of the 5th century, and from then on, the male head wears a laurel wreath, thus, almost certainly indicating that the heads were then Zeus and Hera. In any case, this early coinage, with the double-axe on the reverse, seems to have been replaced by a much rarer second coinage, of which the present piece is the finest known. The simple retrograde legend was retained, but the axe was replaced by the helmeted head of a warrior (assuming the heads on the obverse are divinities, this could be Tenes; Wroth actually thought that the head on the heavily worn BM example was that of Athena, on the analogy of the contemporary and very similar silver coinage of Lampsakos, which bore a Janiform female head and a helmeted head of Athena). Quite probably the great similarity between the silver issues of Tenedos and Lampsakos is what seems to have convinced the authorities on Tenedos to return to their earlier double-axe reverse type, along with a more complete legend, in order to avoid any confusion. The style of this coin is particularly fine. The heads have fully frontal eyes and the so-called archaic smile is most apparent; yet this coin was clearly produced at the end of the Archaic period, with the female head being very reminiscent of those of Athena found on the Starr Group I issues of Athens, thus dating it to the 490s or 480s BC. This important janiform head is also very reminiscent of the double-head kantharoi that were produced in Athens in the late 6th and earlier 5th centuries - in fact the combination of male and female elements was particularly popular with contemporary potters and vase painters.[/I] [SIZE=6]WTF! $180,000!!! [/SIZE] [SIZE=4]First off, can I get some confirmation on here that my coin is the same type? Granted my coin is not a Didrachm and it is not even in the same hemisphere to being as detailed as the above referenced coin. My coin could be considered 'Fine' at best, but I admit my cell phone pictures do suck, and it is a little better in hand. So please my fellow CoinTalk members. Help confirm what I have here, and if it is what I believe it to be. Can any of you find any other references to this type and/or in the diobol denomination. There is mention of the British Museum posessing a worn example: [B]SELECT GREEK AND ROMAN COINS.[/B] Period I. A.(Plates 1-3) B.C. 700-480 Plate 2. 18. Lampsacus. AR. [I]Obv.[/I] Janiform female head. [I]Rev.[/I] Head of Pallas within an incuse square. Wt. 82 grs. A coin of fine archaic style, probably as early as B.C. 480 ACsearch, Coin Archives only reference the above (TRITON XV)example. Wildwinds has nothing. TIA.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
I think I may have found a really really really rare type...
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...