I think I bought a fake. Help, please.

$25 buys a nice coin

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

After all you've been through over this, if the seller doesn't give you satisfaction in the matter of the refund, then for the sake of the rest of us, please post his company name here. If he's being brazen or stubborn about it, don't threaten and don't warn, just do it. Consider that an honest request from me to you for all of us.

 

I have no idea why or how this refund came to be, but you need to present it to the seller. If one is unsatisfied with a coin (for various reasons), it is expected the buyer pays for shipping. But in cases of authenticity the seller needs to pay all associated costs. Do not back down. Make them pay. It is the only honorable thing to to.

 

Just asking him how he came to the number for the refund might be interesting. Years ago. I returned a coin to the UK which had been purchased using UK pounds. The refund came in UK pounds but exchange rates changed in the meantime and I made $10 on the deal. You can't expect to be covered for currency fluctuations but the rest should come back for a fake.

 

I'm assuming that you paid the original 9 Euros shipping (to you) when you bought the coin, and the 11.34 Euros shipping back to the dealer:



If this is correct, then financially (and ethically) you're owed 260.34 EUROS (not dollars) for the counterfeit. Regardless of whether the Euro-Dollar exchange rate works for or against you, the accounting is done in the original currency.

While you're unlikely to get a satisfactory response from the dealer, I would pursue it nonetheless.

 

Thanks everybody for the advice; I sent the seller an email (copied below). I followed @dougsmit's approach and even used some of @Ken Dorney's language, which was helpful. If I am not satisfied with the response (either a more appropriate refund or a sensible explanation) then I will respond to @lrbguy's request to share the seller's name. I just want to give the seller one more chance to do the right thing here. I can't believe he expects me to pay him to ship me a forged coin!

------------

Dear [X],

Thank you for refunding the purchase price of the coin. I accept that you unknowingly sold the forged coin.

I was, however, disappointed in the refund amount. I assumed that in cases of forgery, the seller would be responsible for all associated costs; namely the 9 EUROS to ship and approximately 9 EUROS to return.

However, my refund amount was $284.84–only the price of the coin when sold. (At current rates, 240 EUROS is now actually $294.56.) I assumed that I would at least be refunded my initial shipping charges.

Can you please explain how you arrived at the refund amount?

Gavin Richardson

 

Am I seeing things? It looks like the same GRAFFITO is on this coin?

 

I don't think it's the same coin; I don't see the graffito, and this one is nicely centered, unlike the two forgeries. But you better believe I am going to be hyperscrupulous about my next one of these. I've had a heck of a time trying to get this particular coin type in a budget-friendly manner.

I think budget-friendly JC denarii that one can trust may be a thing of the past.

 

I overlaid the obverse of the ebay coin with obverse of your coin with scale-able transparency. The images do not align perfectly and it seems as though there are subtle differences. But, as TIF said, it is due to the fact that the ebay picture was taken at an angle. This is apparent if you do the transparency trick.

Apart from that, the most telling aspects are in the beading on the reverse. There are three distinguishable features that match exactly on both coins.

If they are real, then both coins:
1. Came from the exact same reverse die.
2. Were struck off-center by the same degree in the exact same direction
3. Were handled by the same person that habitually scratched "E" into the same place in all of his coins.

Or, they are fake. I'm betting on fake.

Edit: Oops, I read the opening post at the top of the Message boards and assumed this was a new thread. I'm guessing this was all discussed ad nauseam over the last 5 pages. Oh well, I didn't have anything else to do anyway

 

Well, there is still interesting speculation about whether both coins are cast copies or if my coin is a genuine host coin. But the Spanish seller said that after examining the coin, he believes it is indeed a forgery. I’m not quite sure what his criteria are, but that was his judgment.

 

One final update. The seller responded to my email and said that the amount of the refund generated was sort of an automatic feature of his system, which seems simply to refund the purchase price of the coin.

He then asked me to name whatever shipping cost I would like refunded and he would refund it. I did, and he did.

Although it should not have taken this long, this matter has been resolved to my satisfaction.

 

I'm glad it was finally resolved. Ultimately, it showed this dealer was fair, receptive, and responsible (albeit not a perfectionist).

 

I’ve bought several Hawaiian coins on eBay,... was very happy with my purchases, until I brought them to my local coin dealer... two were determined as counterfeit,... was past the return dates... one coin, a 25 cent piece, was “cheap” and from China, looked authentic but it was less than $50, I
knew I was taking a chance on that one, but was stupid in hoping that was real.

I searched through my ebay receipts and finally found the seller info for the other hawaiian coin and called to explain the situation to a female who answered the phone. She scoffed and with a little laugh told me I was “out of the return window”, and hung up on me. You think I would learn...

So earlier this year, I saw an ad in Numismatic News, for Hawaiian coins, and the guy I spoke to over the phone confirmed authentic and return window 2 weeks... So I bought the coin, around $400.00 for a low grade coin, as I just wanted to have a Hawaiian coin of every denomination for my little collection... took the coin to mycoin dealer, he checked it, and he explained that this coin didn’t look authentic, workmanship was subpar, lots of scratches on the coin, he didn’t think this was kosher either...

So I called the dealer on the mainland, and told him a story about the friend I had bought the coin for refused my gift and I needed to return it. Sent Coin back and was refunded promptly.

So, back on eBay, now looking at various auctions, and I see a new item, a mule penny, listed as a 1967 penny with a wheat reverse. Auction had just started, and I figured I’d place a bid for $7.50, and would sit back and see how high this will go...

Kinda forgot about the auction until I was notified My bid was the winning bid...paid my $7.50...and soon received it in the mail. I knew something was wrong... If this was the real deal, this would have seen a lot more bidding. Took it to my coin dealer and they confirmed what I suspected; they took a wheat 1947 penny and “punched” the 4 on the date to make it look like a six. I kept this coin as reminder to myself,”Let the buyer be aware.”

 

At what point do you consider buying from the dealer that you are using for authentication?

The longer you look, the more points you will see. Start with the E and last A of Caesar. The other thing to consider in such a case is whether the two could be different photos of the same coin. That would make them possibly genuine but still require adressing things like seams and surfaces. If you have both coins in hand at the same time, there is only one choice left. Your bet sounds good.

 

I ran into a familiar face today on eBay....

Seller: xra_363 - Selling all fake coins, based in Spain but shipping from "Toronto"?

Anyway, I thought it was funny to recognize that "E" graffiti.

 

Yep. What an odd coin to choose to fake. That E is pretty distinctive.

 

Just another thought. I think they are the same coin, but isn't it possible that the eBay dealer lifted the picture from your VCoins dealer and posted it?

 

Is there any chance that E is a F with an extra score at the base to 'confuse' the unwary? I have seen other coins defaced with F for fake in the belief that so marked it is marked as fake?

 

All of them should be uploaded to Forum's fake reports.

 

Post deleted. I didn’t know it was the OP’s coin.