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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Circus, post: 1730867, member: 51195&quot;]First off if you don&#039;t know, you don&#039;t know. There is no such thing as a stupid question. And on the internet, there are a lot of LITOM&#039;s (Legends in their own minds) you will have to understand that some people never change and are the same way they have been in grade school and beyond.</p><p><br /></p><p>&nbsp;Most of what is described on a lot of coin and metal detecting sites and are borrowed from jewelry and metal artist sites. The people don&#039;t understand the process either the ones borrowing it or even some that are posting it.</p><p><br /></p><p>Contrary to the young lady&#039;s idea on that TV commercial, that you can&#039;t put anything on the internet that isn&#039;t true! There is a lot of deep do do! </p><p><br /></p><p>Since they general agreement is, buy the book before the coin!</p><p>here are a couple of the ones that are available:</p><p><a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/ptsideshow/media/Coins/IMG201.jpg.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/ptsideshow/media/Coins/IMG201.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Coins/IMG201.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></a></p><p><a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/ptsideshow/media/Coins/IMG202.jpg.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/ptsideshow/media/Coins/IMG202.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Coins/IMG202.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></a></p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/ptsideshow/media/Coins/IMG203.jpg.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/ptsideshow/media/Coins/IMG203.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Coins/IMG203.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></a></p><p><a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/ptsideshow/media/Coins/IMG204.jpg.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/ptsideshow/media/Coins/IMG204.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Coins/IMG204.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></a></p><p><br /></p><p>Both are available from assorted coin shop/dealers on the net. A word on the the used books sites and Amazon. Some of the sellers are not from this planet with the cost of these and other books for this hobby and token collecting. They think that the if the book is out of print it is worth a fortune. Search and don&#039;t buy the first one on the secondary market you see.</p><p>Here is a search engine that searches over 25 book sales sites: <a href="http://used.addall.com/" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://used.addall.com/" rel="nofollow">AddALL Used and Out of Print book search</a>&nbsp; it will let you compare the offerings world wide. they also have a new book site </p><p><a href="http://www.addall.com/" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.addall.com/" rel="nofollow">AddALL book search and price comparison</a> </p><p>Now some facts on the vinegar, salt, lemon juice, ammonia solutions. Are long time mixtures that have been used to&nbsp; change the surface coloring of metal objects. Here is Websters a superficial covering or exterior,&nbsp; a usually green film formed&nbsp; naturally on copper and bronze by long exposure or artificially (as by&nbsp; acids) and often valued aesthetically for its color.</p><p>General in the metal arts, To clean the surface you use diluted acid or degreaser followed by a rinse then a rinse with acetone to remove all traces of water/moisture.</p><p><br /></p><p>Then you apply the patina solution.</p><p><br /></p><p>Vinegar is&nbsp; Know as <span style="color: #ff0000">ACETIC ACID</span>, it can and does remove zinc and other plating from metal</p><p><a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/ptsideshow/media/Tools/DSCF9734.jpg.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/ptsideshow/media/Tools/DSCF9734.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSCF9734.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></a></p><p><a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/ptsideshow/media/Tools/DSCF9737.jpg.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/ptsideshow/media/Tools/DSCF9737.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSCF9737.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></a></p><p>any of the acids whether natural or man made will etch the surface of the metal it comes in contact with. </p><p><br /></p><p>If you are going to use it on any metallic material use it only by itself and keep an eye on the progress by removing the items and checking the progress.</p><p><br /></p><p>You have to remember that length of time, temperature of the solution, strength of the solution, and the air temperature will effect the process.</p><p><br /></p><p>When you start mixing the materials you will add more variables in. Ferrous type materials will rust with the addition of salt(sodium chloride or its variations), Now when used with copper, brass silver it will also cause surface coloration&#039;s.</p><p><br /></p><p>Being new to coin collecting but 40 plus years into metal art and fabrication. There is a lot of B.S. out here on the net. In both the areas of the hobbies.</p><p><br /></p><p>The same being with the constant mention of rock polishers to clean stuff either from metal detecting, or coins. They keep saying the can type rolling tumbler polisher mostly because it they are cheaper than the vibratory type. that uses a wider variety of cleaning media from saw dust (wet or dry) to corn cob, walnut shells and plastic, wood, grits, through stainless steel metal shot with detergent cleansers. </p><p><br /></p><p>I&#039;m not suggesting that anybody do it, but the vibratory tumblers are easier to use, and easier to check on contents. Same kind that is used to clean brass shell casing for reloading.</p><p><br /></p><p>No matter what method and materials you may choose in the future, always remember to try it out on some items that you can&#039;t damage if it goes wrong! And don&#039;t fall for the organic B.S. line that &quot;if its organic it can&#039;t hurt you or do damage!&quot; Citrus oil cleaners are touted as a wonderful, safe cleaner. Yeah right then why it it a registered pesticide with the EPA. turpentine cause more health problems that any of the other solvents.</p><p><br /></p><p>Be safe use the proper safety equipment for want you are using.</p><p><br /></p><p>And by all means keep asking questions, it is the one of the best ways of learning and getting info.</p><p><br /></p><p>As to my bonifidey&#039;s, I have a large collection of metalworking, jewelry, metal arts and patina books. And have been doing it for over 40 years, yet I don&#039;t consider myself an expert. Just a very well informed hobbyist![/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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