I like Cleaned Coins and you should to thread

A good example would be the Bust series in virtually all denominations. There are countless examples in NGC and PCGS slabs where the coins have obvious signs of harsh cleaning or even corrosion, and yet the coins are slabbed and graded.

But the exact same marks and signs if found on a coin from a later series used to end up body-bagged or today is placed in Genuine or Details slabs.

There have also been many cases where coins of rarity, significant value, or even a certain pedigree, have been, shall we say, cut some slack, and then graded and slabbed.

The TPGs do not apply the rules regarding these issues equally across the board. Same thing applies to the grading standards with these situations I have described above. And I most definitely do not agree with the TPGs on these matters.

 

Based on your question I'd say that you are beginning to understand the situation. That's a step in the right direction in my opinion. And you already know the answer to your question.

There are a great many intricacies involved in how the TPGs grade coins. And those intricacies involve more than just the grading standards they use. They also involve the rules, or company policies, followed by each TPG. Many people aren't even aware that these intricacies exist, let alone understand them.

But once you do become aware of them all, and then once you do understand them all, only then can you decide for yourself if the TPGs are right or not. In other words, are the TPGs grading the coins correctly, or incorrectly ?

 

Justin -

It's been answered many times, and in many different threads. But there is nothing simple about it. And the reason it is not simple is because there are so very many variables involved and there is a great deal to know.

First of all it depends on what the coin is. Then it depends on what is on the coin. Then it depends on knowing whether or not cleaning that coin should even be attempted and whether or not you have any chance of success. Then and only then do you decide on which method to use. That's the complicated part, the part that requires a good deal of knowledge and experience.

Then comes the simple part, the actual cleaning. It's simple because you don't do anything other than immerse the coin in a liquid. But you have to know which liquid, and you have to know which liquid should be used on which coin, and for how long.

Basically there are 4 liquids.
1- distilled water
2 - acetone (there are possible consequences if acetone is used on copper coins)
3 - xylene
4 - a coin dip, but there are many different kinds of coin dips. And using a coin dip gets way more complicated and requires even more knowledge and experience than all of the other things combined. And it should never be attempted on a coin of any consequence until you are certain that you have the required knowledge and experience.

But the procedure for using the first 3 options is basically the same. It is explained in detail in this thread - http://www.cointalk.com/t193708/

There are also some basic safety rules for using #2 and #3. You should avoid breathing the fumes of either as much as possible. You also need to be aware that the fumes of both are highly explosive if allowed to accumulate in an enclosed space - such as your house. And you have to know how to properly dispose of these liquids once used. You NEVER want to just pour them down the kitchen drain for example, or any drain.

With these 4 things you can (sometimes, and I say sometimes because of what I explained my second paragraph) clean a coin and do no harm to the coin - IF you do it properly. If you do not do it properly then you will not succeed and it is also possible with some of them to harm the coin, in particular #4. And possibly with #2 if used on copper coins.

Now there are some cases where none of these 4 things will work and much more involved and complicated processes need to be used. And even they are often not successful.

And it should be known and understood that with all 4 of the methods mentioned above, that once used, you may end up wishing that had you had not used them at all. That is because once a coin has been cleaned it often reveals things that would probably have been better off left covered.

Now after reading all of this you should realize that you still do not have an answer to what you thought was a simple question. But that's because it isn't a simple question.

 

Well, let me put it this way. I've seen the TPGs body-bag F, VF, and even G coins when they had been wiped or rubbed with a cloth. And I've seen them slab and grade the same coins when they had not been wiped or rubbed with a cloth.

Yes, any cloth, I don't care how soft you think it is, will leave tell tale traces on even well circulated coins. And a brush, any brush, even the finest, softest artist's brush you can find, will do the same.

You see, on the MS or Proof coins the cloth or brush is doing the damage. On a circulated coin you not only have the fine marks that will be left on the coin by the cloth or brush, you also have the grit from the dirt that is on the circulated coin. And once it is loosened up and it starts moving around the surface of that circulated coin - well, you might as well be using a piece of sandpaper.

So the effects of doing it to a circulated coin is even worse than it is on an MS coin.

 

You ever seen a polished coin ? Are they anywhere even close to being hard to identify ? Or can even a novice notice it at a glance ? Those are traces left by a soft cloth.

And the reason that a polished coin has the particular look it has is because that soft cloth that you think will leave no traces has rubbed out and completely obliterated any fine scratches and light contact marks that were already on the coin.

Take any well circulated coin you have right out your pocket change. Wash all the dirt off if it under running water. Get the softest cloth you can find. Sit down and polish that coin up. Then try tell me it does not look any different.

 

With acetone or xylene. But it must be done when the print is fresh, or it won't come off. If the print has there for a few days, it's already too late.

 

You leave fingerprints on anything/everything you touch Amanda. Say you grab your arm, you just left fingerprints on your arm.