I got an education in selling

Hey Race!

"Back in the day", when I first began collecting, I couldn't expect more than 50% of Red Book for coins I sold. That was the rule of thumb I grudgingly adopted...and have been OK with it ever since. Dealers need to make a profit, too.

In your case, $16,000 is clearly a low-ball offer. I would tack the difference (+) onto the other end and tell the Dealer he has to go to $23,000 if he wants to paw through the coins a second time (he already knows what's there, anyway). That's his penalty for jerking you around and shows you're a serious seller looking for a fair trade. If he doesn't want to keep talking...screw him! (imho)

 

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Don't you know that kind of talk is blasphemous on this forum. NEVER CLEAN COINS & NEVER INVEST IN COINS is the Cointalk mantra. The fact that you and I make money selling our coins can only be attributed to one thing: LUCK! :devil:

And the fish at the poker table believe the same thing!

 

this ebay seller is liquidating a collection much like yours. It may be a good idea to see how he is doing it. Look at completed auctions and such. Sometimes it may be better to sell a whole set of IHC or such instead of breaking it up. http://www.ebay.com/sch/get2college/m.html?item=271010015528+&viewitem=&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2562
Definitely sell on ebay and minimize your hassles by NEVER selling a lot for less than $500. Also ask top dollar on a 30 day buy it now with a "best offer" option (and be patient)

 

But you make the comparison yourself Paul. You consider yourself a professional at poker and know how to maximize profits. You do the same selling your coins. Do you really believe our advice to "not invest in coins" is really directed at you or other pseudo dealers? When that is said, I believe its implied we are talking about those who wouldn't go through the work of maximizing selling price, and would be trying to sell coins back to dealers or through auction firms with their hefty commission structure. Most collectors are "fish" Paul.

Even then, for those who have "made money in coins", even a lot of that is hogwash if they did not beat inflation over the years. Buying a coin for $100 in 1992 and selling for $150 in 2012 is not "making money" remember. Can people make money in coins? Sure its done every day, and their name is dealers typically.

 

Try Great Collections. Coins worth over $1000 you get 100% of the hammer price and coin under $1000 the sellers fee is 5%, And you can set the reserve price if you wish. Jim

 

The fact is that any serious collector becomes an investor whether he likes it or not due to the amount of money & time spent. Therefore, prudence dictates that the investment aspect not be ignored. Your advice that the only money spent on coins should be money you are willing to lose is not realistic and is bad advice IMO. I think the investment question should be addressed by telling people to buy the highest quality coins that they can in order to recoup the highest percentage of their investment when they sell. I believe that money lost happens at the time of purchase. I think Doug agrees with me on that point.

BTW, I am only a pseudo dealer out of necessity. If I were employed, I would not be selling my collection but would still have the same numismatic knowledge. I also want to state that I don't think coins are a good investment relative to other options. But due to the prices of rare coins, ignoring the investment aspect is a huge mistake. Another reason why all of my expensive coins are graded by either NGC or PCGS.

 

We can agree to disagree. Minimizing losses and investment are not the same in my book.

Btw, "buying the highest quality you can" as advice to minimize losses is assuming a lot of things Paul. It assumes you are not overpaying when you chase that quality, you assume price structures in the future will continue to put enormous, historically abnormal premiums on higher quality, etc. Its potentially as risky as stating "only buy key dates to guarantee higher percent return", again advice which may or may not work.

 

You are making it seem more difficult than it is. They key is to buy premium quality coins for the assigned grade with exceptional eye appeal. It is counterintuitive but "overpaying" for quality is what makes you money. Those collectors who are slaves to the price guides and will not pay up for quality are the ones who end up with generic material that is very difficult to move when it comes time to sell.

It is the difference between this 1943-S Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67.




and this 1943-S Jefferson Nickel NGC MS67.




I bought the first coin a few months ago when we were discussing which coin venue offered the best prices. Not surprisingly, that coin was very cheap. It languishes in my E-Bay store for less than Numismedia Wholesale. Compare that to the second coin of the same date/mm and grade. I bought that coin for 5X Numismedia Wholesale in 2009 and sold it for 7X Numismedia Wholesale. With respect to surface preservation, the coins are similar, hence the MS67 grade. But when you factor in strike, luster, and eye appeal, the second coin is far superior to the first. Of course this is an anecdotal exercise and there is no guarantee that the second coin will continue to perform as it has, but one thing is for sure, the first coin is dreck and always will be. If one buys coins like the first one, they are doomed to lose money. If they buy coins like the second one, they will win some and lose some but stand a very good chance to come out on top when all is said and done.


You have the choice to believe or not believe. But I have learned one indisputable fact in my years of coin collecting, quality & eye appeal never go out of style.

 

I don't disagree sir, and have said many times those who refuse to pay for a better coin in the grade are doomed to have mediocre coins. I was talking about those who must have a 67 vs a 66, or a BU vs an AU.

What youa re talking about in ancients is the debate of the affect of style. Those who buy any coin will always have a lesser collection than those who pursue coins with great style.

We mainly agree, like usual, but I simply "don't invest in coins" is as helpful to most readers as "never clean a coin". Both are truisms for a reason, but not absolutes. I would have never bought my flowing hair dollar if I truly believed that entire purchase price was money down the drain. I simply don't intend on RELYING on that money to eat when I am retired. That is what investments are for.

 

If you consider an investment simply as a vehicle to grow your money, then yes, you are correct. What I and Ankur are saying is that once you put enough money into coins, you are left with a "bad" investment whether you like it or not. I say "bad" because it will usually lose money and certainly will not perform at the same rate of return as what is normally considered a "good" investment if it makes money. But make no mistake, if you have a $50K coin collection, you are invested in coins. Choosing to make that bad investment is the price we pay to enjoy the hobby.

 

Yeah, but I am more concerned with newer collectors and not longtime farts like us.

You want to see a fish Paul? Have this board post over and over how "investing" in rare coins is a good investment, and then have a new collector go into a coin store. You would see a person's portfolio get completely PILLAGED. I simply would rather have older collectors worry about loss minimization than ever have a new collector believe investing in rare coins is a good idea. That is why I subscribe to the "coin talk mantra" that you do not invest in rare coins.

 

Well, yeah. I'll go under margin for a good customer like you, why not? You're money on a hoof.

Might as well, it probably wouldn't hurt you none.

 

I think I'm inclined to side with you over poker face Paul over there. Paul, just busting your chops, man. Good luck.

PS: As for me, I'm just hoping to break even when I sell my coins, I could really use the money...

 

That is a very good point you make. I can't argue with it but maybe I can give the newbies something to shoot for.

 

The "trick" I haven't seen discussed yet -- the old Realtor's ploy, advertise for what you want. Then you have one Buyer and many Sellers, instead of many Buyers and one Seller. And one or two of your respondents are bound to be desperate, and they know they have competition.

But it's a lengthy process, that's the catch.

 

IMO i think misconception is if you are collector you should not be bargain hunting but rather go in guns blazing and spend however much possible to get the coin your desired. This is why most collectors will never earn back their return, every collector should buy coins with a eye on making a decent return or breaking even when they have to turn around and sell it.

 

"...every collector should buy coins with a eye on making a decent return or breaking even when they have to turn around and sell it."

Which, umm, means bargain-hunting. Haste makes waste. Dealers LOVE guys that "gotta have it today!" The minute they figure that out, all your bargaining power just evaporated.
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Rule or thumb: you get 50% of Redbook when you sell (for correctly graded coins w/good eye appeal). If you can't buy them for that...you need to collect the difference from the "Joy of the Hobby". If you don't enjoy the hobby that much...you need to find a new hobby! :kewl:

 

50% to 40% below Red Book is about what I expect from a dealer for a set that he has not examined. If he takes the time to examine it, and it has a lot more value because of higher grades on the more key dates, then you haggle hard, MAYBE you could get 25% but more likely 30% below. This is what he needs to do the paper work, and hold the inventory until it sells (along with the money that is then tied up). Not to mention he pays rent and the light bill, insurance, risk of theft, +, +, + and probably has employees. Oh yea, and his time and maybe he could make a living?
We would all like to sell at over red book and buy at half, instead of the other way around, but it is only fair and reasonable that dealers buy and sell at the prices they do.
and don't keep using ebay. Try Webstore... no fees!!!!! http://www.webstore.com/index.php

 

On my first major sale I took a hit. 69% roi compared to what I paid on ebay... but I took my coins to a B+M dealer. I simply refuse to accept that coins are a terrible investment. As long as there are hundreds/thousands of dealers who churn a profit, put food in their belly, and make car payments with the primary vehicle being numismatics I refuse to rule out the possibility of coins as a wise investment.