I finished my Buffalo collection with this - grade?

Would you be willing to post a picture of your Buffalo in the slab?

It's a great looking coin regardless of what ANACS gave it. I do see the spots on the coin that others pointed out, but I just thought the strike was slightly weak.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I did too....in fact I still do....I've found that sometimes when a coin is weekly struck grading Co. don't take that into the grade and just mark it up as wear....like the 1926-S buff....many of them are undergraded.

Speedy

 

Well, I learned that the new ANACs slabbed open real easy with a pair of 'nippers'. I snipped it and took the coin out. I looked long and hard, and the coin is typically poorly struck (really super common with the 1913S T2's, but no break in luster from friction. I am trying one more time, with NGC. It is my firm belief that this is a poorly struck MS63 or better. Anacs also did not a cool die clash, look below the chin on the pic, that is a bit of e pluribus unum upside down and backwards... only noticible if you look really closely. Also common in the 1913S T2.
If NGC calls this an AU, I'm just taking out of the slab and keeping the coin raw. I have had this thing looked at by several local experts, and no one sees anything that looks like friction rubs. Just flatness due to weak strike.
I was really dissapointed. I contacted the seller, who immediately offered a refund, which was nice, but I firmly believe he graded the coin right. Frankly, I think he was a bit eager to get the coin back!

 

My first reply

This is my first reply to a forum. I sent a 1913-s type 2 to PCI some time ago and it had very similar characteristics as the one you have , only mine had no toning. It came back as an au50. I have learned alot since then. I sent about 20 coins to PCI at the time. This was the first time I had ever sent coins to anyone for grading. I figured PCI was fairly cheap and I was curious about some of the coins I had. The buffalo you sent has too much detail missing to be an MS. Hair around the horn is worn as is the the shoulder area. I'll let everybody know a little secret. I was probably one of the biggest fools in the past because most of the silver coins I have I dipped sometime in the past. I also dipped some buffalo's . When all the coins came back from PCI they were red-labeled cleaned except for the buffalo's. The other buffalo's I dipped now have the same toned look as the the one you posted. Good or bad ? They look great and I'm not sure anyone can tell they were dipped. Maybe yours was dipped in the past as well ?

 

Hi Vincent2920!
It has definately not been dipped. The toning is the natural, of that I am sure, not induced by a dip. As to wear, the flat spots are not wear. The hair on the buffalo is flat due to soft strike. If that was wear (that much flatness) this would be an XF coin. Buffalo's are an art form in themselves in terms of grading, and you have to study the strike characteristics for each mintmark and year. There is a great book called The complete guide to buffalo nickels that goes through each date mint mark combo and goes over the characteristic strike qualities of each. This particular coin is very different from the 1913 T1 which was often incredibly well struck. It is almost impossible to find a super quality strike on the 1913S T2. The super struck coins sell for thousands of dollars.
I am convinced that this is not a circulated coin for two reasons. One, I know the seller who knew the history of the coin, and two, and have worked very hard to learn how to grade buffs. They are the center of my collection and I have been working on grading them for years. Still an amateur to be sure, but this coin is an MS63 to MS64.

 

Good luck with NGC

Keep us posted with the results from NGC. I didn't realize there were that many weak strikes in the old Buffalos. I am by far not a experienced grader. I hope you get the ms63-64 you are hoping for. I might send mine back to ANACS and see what it gets , though I think the best would be ms60. I don't have a scanner or I would add a photo along with the message. I don't know if my other Buffalos that show some toning are a result of past dippings or not. It's been farr too many years for me to remember which ones were dipped. I wish I would have known better back then but it's too late now. Best of luck with NGC.

 

Thanks, I'll do another update when it comes back. Like I said, if the graders have trouble with the weak strike, I'll leave it raw. NGC is generally pretty good, and I've had good luck with them on buffalo's. This is the first time I've sent a buffalo to ANACS, so I did not know what to expect. I was warned that these don't always grade properly in weak strikes with the TPG's.
We'll see!

 

Congrats on finishing the set. Gorgeous coin. It looks AU to me. Great coin & thanks for sharing....Mike

p.s. when are you going to start on the error coins?

 

That is strange. From what I see it's should have been much higher. However, that is the problem everone is having with the grading services lately. From what I hear PCGS is the best but since that is only hearsay from the PCGS forum, I don't know if it means anything. If your unhappy with that grade, and well you should be, the only recourse is to remove it and resend to anther service like PCGS or one of the many others.
The problem lately is more and more grading services are poping up and even the old ones are hiring just about anyone that can count. The slabbing of coins is a growing thing. I wouldn't be surprized if some of the grading isn't outsource to India like everything else. I recently saw a slabbed coin that was slabbed in China. It was a US coin.

 

The whole slabbing thing is out of control... and we are all the victems of it. In my case, I don't want to resell, but the slab seems to make the coin these days... so you need the plastic to verify what you know. If NGC does not come through, its gonna stay raw.

As to collecting the errors... I don't know if I have the werewithall to spend that kind of money... I just bought my first error shield nickel (another thread) and will see how it comes back, but that was just about $1,000. An UNC 18 / 17 or 3 leg is going to run double that at least in decent condition. I just don't know about that.

I would love to own one of the very rare 1913's in MS68! The 1913 p is, when well struck, one of the finest examples of a super deep relief coin you can find! Amazing!

 

Final update. The coin came back from NGC after cracking out of the ANAC's AU55 (which I felt was a simple wrong grade) and it came back MS62.
I can live with that! I was hoping MS64, but MS62 for a real PQ looking coin works for me... so ANAC's was off on this one. I never saw wear, only a weak strike, and NGC apparantly agrees.

 

Nice!!!.....when you sent the coins to ANACS was it the "new" ANACS or were they still slabbing and grading the old way?

Speedy

 

Ms!

Thats great news, looks like it was worth regrading, even if only for your own piece of mind. congats:high5:

 

Good to see the ms62 grade . I may send my PCI AU50 into NGC just to see what happens. I would be real happy with any MS grade. The coin looks very similar except no toning.

 

That's one beautiful Buffalo. I've just started a set (just started collecting coins seriously period) and hope to do a set with AU/BU as the minimum condition. 8 down a lot to go.


~Brian

 

Speedy,
it was the new ANAC's. It came back in the new holder (which I like a LOT). Are they trying to 'tighten' down? Sometimes that can cause a short adjusting period where the teeter totter swings too far in the 'tight' direction...
Either way, I wish I had gotten that MS62 from ANAC's as I prefer their holder. I really don't like NGC holders.

 

From what I've seen they aren't tightening down....they seem to be getting loser....I hope that you are right and they are just getting adjusted....

Speedy

 

Wrong grade. Maybe! As you put the problem, 'The whole slabbing thing is out of control', and when you start collecting plastic slabs in place of coins, your adding to the problem.
Let's put it another way. I don't have that much faith in NGC and their grading, especially in Buffalo coins. They have in the past made some very bad mistkes, and had to pay for them. At least their guarantee is good.

 

The sad thing is, unless you are a large 'name' with a giant collection, the only way to validate the value of your collection seems to be having the coins certified. I don't like it, but that is the way it is. If I leave them raw, and lets say something happens to me... well, then my wife gets hosed on the coins. At least certified there is some ability to apply more of a standard value.
When I buy an expensive coin, I do it 'cause I like the coin. However, I, like everyone else, want some validation everything is up to snuff. So you send the coin out. My grading is 'okay', I keep trying to study and improve, but I make mistakes. So, you hope for the TPG's to give you some validation.
In this case, I still don't know that I completely agree. I think this coin is an MS63 with a shot at better. But, for the time being, I'll leave it in a holder that at least gives some indication that it is not another AU cleaned coin, like half those MS65's on ebay are...
Coin collecting, on the higher end, is a risky game. TPG's provide some safety net.

 

Can you elaborate on this? I've started collecting Buffalo's & want the set to be AU or better. Are these cleaned coins obvious? I've picked up 9 coins so far (just some of the easier dates) & hope I haven't gotten one of these cleaned coins.

Thanks


The coins I've purchased so far can be seen here.