I don't always buy denarii, but when I do..

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Nvb, Jan 19, 2019.

  1. Nvb

    Nvb Well-Known Member

    I try to keep it weird! New auction scoop =)
    Also my first foray into fouree

    [​IMG]

    Weight 2.69g
    Diameter 18.3mm

    Imperatorial coins
    L. Cornelius Lentulus Crus and C. Claudius Marcellus Denar 49 BC Chr., Army mint. the Pompeian to Apollonia in Illyria. Triskeles with winged Medusenhaupt and ears / Jupiter with eagle and lightning bundle. Cr. 445, 1b; Syd. 1029. 2.69 g .; Fine, slightly bluish tint Very beautiful Subaerat

    The Triskeles refers to the conquest of Sicily by M. Claudius Marcellus in the year 212 BC. The island was known in antiquity as Trinakria.
     
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  3. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Very nice @Nvb , the Triskeles is always a cool design...

    I have FOUR Fouree in my Roman collection... :)

    ROMAN REPUBLIC:

    upload_2019-1-19_8-25-53.png
    RR fourée mule anon Q Fabius Labeo denarius 18mm 2.9g after 124 BC Roma X Jupiter Quadriga tbolt scepter Cr 159 obv Cr 273-1 rev


    upload_2019-1-19_8-28-23.png
    RR Anon AE Victoriatus after 218 BCE Rome mint Ex RBW Anon Jupiter Victory crowning trophy Craw 44-1 Syd 83 Sear 49 Fouree


    ROMAN EMPIRE:

    RI Fouree Denarius Severus Alexander with Annona Avg reverse.jpg
    RI Fouree Denarius Severus Alexander with Annona Avg reverse


    RI Julia Domna 194-217 Fouree AR Plated Den Isis Horus.jpg
    RI Julia Domna 194-217 Fouree AR Plated Den Isis Horus
     
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  4. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    If you're going to have a fourree you might as well have one of a super cool coin type! Nice pickup, @Nvb!

    Here's a non-fourree version:

    [​IMG]
    Roman Republic, the Pompeians
    L. Cornelius Lentulus and C. Claudius Marcellus

    Military mint in the East (Apollonia and Asia), 49 BC
    AR denarius, 19 mm, 3.8 gm
    Obv: Triskeles, with winged head of Medusa facing at center; stalk of grain between each leg
    Rev: Jupiter standing facing, head right, holding thunderbolt in right hand and eagle on left; LE(NT) (MAR) upward to left, COS upward to right
    Ref: Crawford 445/1b; Sydenham 1029a

    I have two fourrees:

    [​IMG]
    Roman Republic fourée mule denarius
    L. Antestius Gragulus, 136 BCE, and C. Renius, 138 BCE

    ancient forgery, 3.18 gm
    Obv: Roma helmeted head right, * below chin, GRAG behind
    Rev: Juno Caprotina in a biga of goats, C・RENI below, ROMA in exergue
    Ref: Obverse S.115, Cr.238/1, Syd.451, RSC Antestia 9; Reverse S.108, Cr.231/1, Syd.432, RSc Renia 1

    [​IMG]
    Roman Republic, Lucius Aurelius Cotta
    105 BCE
    Fourree AR serrate denarius, 20 mm, 3.8 gm
    Obv: draped bust of Vulcan right, wearing laureate pileus; tongs and star behind; all within wreath and dotted border
    Rev: eagle standing on thunderbolt, head left; L·COT below, V to right; all within laurel wreath and dotted border
    Ref: c.f. Crawford 314/1c; Sydenham 577a; Aurelia 21b
    formerly slabbed
     
  5. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Really like that Triskeles!
     
    Nvb likes this.
  6. Carthago

    Carthago Does this look infected to you?

    An interesting plated example and type. Here's my official issue

    L Cornelius Lentulus and C Claudius Marcellus 445-1b M&M 2014.jpeg :

    L. Cornelius Lentulus and C. Claudius Marcellus AR Denarius (3.93g, 19mm, 10h). Military mint travelling with Pompey, 49 BC. Facing head of Medusa in center of triskeles with grain ear between each leg / Jupiter standing facing, holding thunderbolt in right hand and eagle in lreft; LENT MAR upwards to left, COS upwards to right, (NT and MAR ligate). Crawford 445/1b; Sear 4; Sydenham 1029; Cornelia 64a

    Provenance:

    Munzenhandlung Dr. Busso Peus, Auction 251 November 8, 1954 Lot 97
     
  7. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    Your coin is good and weird! I had it bookmarked that example myself ... I was considering upgrading my specimen which has an unsightly test cut. Glad I decided against it. I am sure you will provide that coin a good home.

    I believe mine is from the same die pair as yours:
    triskeles-both.jpg
    2.6g 18.5mm fourrée.

    I was delighted to see your coin when it was listed by the auction house. I have always had faith in this coin. Seeing another specimen with different wear let me confirm that belief.

    (When I purchased my example, in 2007, there was some doubt because the eBay seller was known for not being able to recognize fakes and had been threatened with being listed as a fake-seller.)

    It must have been a bad day for someone when the test cut was applied and bright copper was revealed!
     
  8. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    And this is my very rough example: L CORNELIUS LENTULUS.jpg
     
  9. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    When selecting a fourree, I see four things as important to consider.

    1. Style: Is the coin either close enough to official that you could be fooled by it OR is it wild enough that no one could be fooled? I consider both interesting.
    ra8830bb0422.jpg
    2. Type: Is it an interesting type that is not all that easily obtained in solid?
    ra8020bb0390.jpg
    3. Core: Is the pattern of core exposure either interesting or minimal so as not to make the coin ugly.
    rb0860bb0375.jpg
    4. Seams and such: Are there good signs of seams where the silver foil layers overlap in an interesting or educational way. The obverse of the Augustus above is the best example of a seam I have seen. This also would allow fourrees that define fourrees particularly well even if not made by the foil method. I looked a long time for my gold over silver Byzantine so you get to see it again and again even though it is a bit blobby and worn.

    rz0455bb1174.jpg

    What I want is a gold over silver with a wear pattern like this gold over copper example.
    rz0470bb0432.jpg

    I once saw an as of Nero that was copper over iron but 95% of the iron was rusted away leaving a hollow shell that was a bit dented and delicate to handle. It was not for sale but I certainly would have liked to have had it. Fourrees are like frogs. Not every one kissed will turn into a hansome prince.
     
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  10. Carthago

    Carthago Does this look infected to you?

    Most plated coins were made as contemporary counterfeits, intended to deceive in commerce (they really should be called plated instead of "fouree", but this is another topic hopefully someone will explain sometime ;))

    There are examples of likely official coins issued in plated form in antiquity, one of which hails from the Roman Republic, or Imperatorial period if you prefer.

    The issues of Quintius Cornuficius are very rare and desirable. Not being able to explain the fully history at the moment, suffice to say that he was provincial governor in Africa who ended up at odds against the 2nd Triumvirate and was proscribed by them, attacked and eventually killed. His issues appear to start out in good metal and then shift to plated issues as his store of bullion likely ran out during the conflict. Alberto Campana recently wrote a paper on the issues of Confucius and argues persuasively about the plated coins being issued by him out of necessity. Note how heavy my example is at 4.14g.

    Today, the plated examples extant are almost as numerous as the solid silver, neither being numerous at all!

    Q Cornuficius 509-5 McCabe 2018 PS.jpg

    Q. Cornuficius. Plated Denarius, Africa 42 BC, AR (4.14g, 19.2mm, 11h). Head of Tanit l., wearing wreath of barley. Rev. Q·CORNV – FICI – AVGVR·IMP Q. Cornuficius, veiled, standing l. and holding lituus; hw is crowned by Juno Sospita standing behind him, with crow perching on shoulder, holding spear and shield in l. hand. Babelon Cornuficia 3. Sydenham 1354. Sear Imperators 231. RBW –. Crawford 509/5.

    Ex Andrew McCabe Collection
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
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  11. ycon

    ycon Renaissance Man

    Great OP coin! This was my first foray into fourrees, purchased in november:


    108288.jpg
    Cleopatra and Mark Antony. Double Portrait Plated Denarius.

    Autumn 34 BC Alexandria mint. Obv: CLE[OPATRAE REGINAE REGVM FILIORVM REGVM] legend with diademed and draped bust of Cleopatra VII right, stem of prow before. Rev: [ANTONI ARME]NIA DE[VICTA] legend with bare head of Mark Antony right; Armenian tiara behind. 2.48 grams. Fine; some areas of plating missing. Rare issue. RRC 543/1; CRI 345; BMC East 179; RSC 1; Sear 1515.

    I have another fourree of a JC elephant on its way, to keep this one company.
     
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  12. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

  13. Nvb

    Nvb Well-Known Member

    And now for some contortionists...
    [​IMG]
    Because this coin gave me the urge to google them
    [​IMG]
    I'm sure one of these talented ladies could recreate the obverse
    [​IMG]
    To stunning effect
     
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