to express my gratitude to @Randy Abercrombie right now. Two days ago I received what I thought was my CoinTalk Secret Santa gift, not recognizing the address, and having no expectations of other deliveries. Naturally I was going to wait until Christmas before seeing what I was gifted. However, this evening I came in to see a box laying on the table, labeled as from my SS. I hurriedly opened my other package, since I could feel something hard and round inside. I opened the note from Randy, and discovered a 1778/1777 4 Reale overdate! Please bear in mind this isn't just one of the small half Reales to say the least, this thing is wider than a half dollar! Randy, I am unsure of what means of blackmail was used to obtain my address , but I wanted to let you know how much this means to me, not only as my first 18th century coin with an incredibly fascinating variety, but this really made my d̶a̶y̶ week. Thank you! Looks like I've got some research to do. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays Randy!
Great looking coin and what a sweet gift but @Randy Abercrombie, in his old age, got your gift mixed up with mine. Lol
Ha! Awesome. He told me he was gonna send you that, and asked for your address. So I was the guilty party- *ahem* - accomplice there. I didn't pay attention when I saw the pics, and assumed it was a half-real. Very cool that it is a big four-reales! That's actually a somewhat scarcer denomination in the silver, relatively speaking. The prominent overdate is cool. The old solder attachments at 9:00 and 3:00 indicate that this once had a pinback mount (now missing), so that it could serve as a jewelry brooch. That was almost certainly during the 19th century. As a collector of love tokens, I've seen my fair share of pinbacks.
The mintmark, which is between “REX” and “4 R” on the reverse, is rather blobby and worn, but it appears to be the monogram of Potosí. Which would make this a Spanish Colonial Bolivian coin, rather than one of the more commonly encountered Mexico City pieces. I believe it is Numista-37397, and Krause-Mishler (KM)54. The overdate, while not rare, is worth a little bit more than the non-overdate variety, according to that last Krause/NGC link. Edit- oops- you were gonna do your own research, weren't you? Sorry. Hm. Oh well, you can consider this information just a starting point, and dive still deeper into this coin's considerable history, if you choose to.
Absolutely zero surprise there. Randy is one of those guys, like LordMarcovan, that never ceases to amaze me. His generosity and thoughtfulness is legendary. I'm not a collector of foreign's, so I don't know anything about them, but just being an 18th century coin is cool in and of itself. Enjoy your bounty, mate.
I like your theory. However, I'm having a hard time understanding. That would be a huge button, no? Even bigger than a "dandy button"? Why not put the pin on the other side (dated side)?
These surprises happen quite frequently between members of this site. We are associated with some fine folks here.
No, a button would have the mount in the center. And a four-reales coin would have been rather large for a button anyway. A pinback mount, on the other hand, was attached to the coin in two places, one on either side. On one side was the hinge to which the pin was attached, and on the other side was the clasp which fastened it. And in the case of this coin, the person who made it into a piece of jewelry just happened to choose to display the reverse (coat of arms) side facing outward, since we can see that the pinback was originally mounted on the dated (obverse) side of the coin: Below are some examples of pinback-mounted love tokens, borrowed from this page (on which there are other examples). The first coin below (a Seated half) shows the mount missing, like with @Abramthegreat 's coin above, though here, the hook for the clasp did survive and is still mounted to the coin: Image credit: Ken Barr The pinback is still present and intact on this second coin (a Trade dollar): Image credit: Ken Barr Both of these coins were further hand-engraved as love tokens, while the colonial Bolivian coin above was not. These pinbacks were sometimes fragile and did not always survive the wear and tear they underwent when the coins were worn as jewelry. At some point in the last two centuries, @Abramthegreat's coin lost its pinback mount. This is the sort of "damaged" coin I do not object to quite as much, because in this case the damage to the coin reveals some of its history. I'll bet that four-reales piece could tell some stories, if it could talk. It's been places and seen some stuff over the last 246 years. And it was special to somebody once. It's nice to see that it will be special to somebody again.
Such a wonderful and kind gesture by Randy. The generosity, grace, and cordiality exhibited by members of this forum never ceases to amaze me.......
You are quite welcome @Abramthegreat ….. Your zeal for these old coins so reminds me of my youth. It was my pleasure to send that your way.
