I am on a mission to distinguish grading services.

So is it the date that lets this coin get the CAMEO in the grade??...maybe its just the photo but the head and shirt shows some spots where the frosting isn't thick.
Oh well.....I'll never own a coin like that anyway

Speedy

 

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That is the truth....I've looked at hundreds of 1950's Pf's and few have a good clear proof look....wish mine looked like that but I guess beggers can't be choosers

I'm trying to see if it is a weak strike or if the die was polished....it seems like some of the hair and such is floating in space

Speedy

 

If I was looking for a PF65 1950 Franklin this would be the one.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Franklin-Cameo-...ryZ11973QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think that smudge on the back keeps it from going higher though.

Speedy

 

Since the one on ebay has the smudge on it the one in the thread does have a drawing factor....but the one on ebay show what (maybe its the photo) may be heavier CAM....

I've been thinking and this is what I've come up with.
On the early dates you see a mixed ammount of Proof Franklins...some with a satin BU look and others with the normal Proof look....now would I be right or wrong to say that the ones with the satin look be some of the last ones struck with the dies?....IMO it would seem that when the dies were new they would have a better strike and the coins would therefor have a normal black and white proof look with some CAM....then as the dies were used and not kept up as much as they should have the dies started putting out more of a satin looking coin.

I heard that way back when dies were $$$ if the mint ran out near the end of the year they would sometimes use old worn proof dies....IIRC the coins didn't all have the PROOF look because the dies were worn.

Now---did I come to the right thought? the book I have by Rick Tomaska only hits on this part of the topic lightly.

Speedy

 

Great!....I'm going be keeping my eye out for one that has some CAMEO and maybe someday upgrade!

Speedy

 

Care to hazard a grade on these? I will post the major grading services and the grades if enough folks are interested.

 

To guess a grade we need photos of both sides....

Speedy

 

OK Speedy, it only allowed 5 at one time so here are the others.

 

Yep--that happens to me all the time....but its for the good of the forum...

Cent--PF66....if the line right in front of the face is on the coin then that would take it back to PF65 but I think its on the slab
Dime--PF65---the front is better but the back has some haze and some hair lines IMHO
Half Dollar--SUPER NICE----PF67/8 CAM.

Speedy

 

Two Outa Three Ain't Bad.

OK Speedy since you were the only one brave enough. As Meatloaf would say " Two Outa Three Ain't Bad. "

Here are the descriptions!

A 1951 LINCOLN CENT WITH NEAR HEAVILY FROSTED CAMEO DEVICES SET AGAINST DEEEEEEEP COPPERY BLACK MIRRORS!!!!!
Many of you know that 1951 is one of 2 keys to the Lincoln cameo series (1952 being the other) and the contrast on this one is wonderful!!! The frost on the devices is very near heavy and the mirrors are exceedingly deeeep!! Since NGC was tough on this one, it becomes a heck of a bargain. With that word on the grading tag, it would be astronomical.
THIS PIECE IS A GORGEOUS AND EXTREMELY PRISTINE FULL FIERY MINT RED SUPERB GEM AS WELL…A GREAT COIN WHICH, NEEDLESS TO SAY, BELONGS IN ONE SUPERB SET OF PROOF LINCOLNS. DON’T PASS UP THE OPPORTUNITY!!!!! Superb value relative to a cameo designated example.


The 1942 Dime!!!! VERY RARE AND BEAUTIFUL !!!!
One of only a very small handful of Mercury dimes that exist with fully frosted devices yielding gorgeous heavy+ cameo contrast on both sides!!! What a fabulous and very rare extra heavily frosted example of a 1942 Mercury dime…obviously one of the first few strikes from what seems very likely to be the only die pair which produced any cameos at all that year!
1939 is the “common” date for a cameo Mercury dime. I say that with tongue in cheek…between them, PCGS and NGC have awarded a cameo designation to a whopping 28 dimes of this date out of 4500 1939 examples graded. Next runner up is 1942 with 6 cameo examples out of 8100 graded. The coin for auction here is very rare!!
This little treasure is quite fairly graded by PCI. It is true that the PCI standard for the cameo designations is less strict than that of PCGS, but folks, THIS COIN SHOULD BE A CAMEO AT ANY SERVICE. The MIRRORS ARE LUSTROUS AND DEEP on both sides. THE CAMEO FROST LEVEL IS FULL HEAVY+ AND EQUITABLE ON BOTH SIDES…A GORGEOUS COIN WITH SIMPLY MAGNIFICENT EYE APPEAL! The surfaces are very pristine and right for the grade level. If this coin were ever to make its way into a PCGS or NGC cameo holder (at any numeric grade), it would instantly become a huge windfall! If you are a prudent buyer, I am sure you recognize that the value here is exceptional.
FOLKS, CAREFULLY CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THE CREAM OF THE 1936-42 PROOFS:
The 2 major grading services are so wound up in discerning the ever so subtle minutia that separates a 66 from 67, a 67 from a 68, etc…that in my opinion, they often miss the bigger picture. As recently as the mid 1980's, we all bought coins based mostly on our own personal perception of the aesthetic “eye appeal” of a given mint state or proof coin. We were willing to pay more for the nicer, more eye appealing examples...and such examples were assigned "higher grades" by words such as "gem proof" which was nicer than "choice proof", "superb gem proof" which was better than a "gem proof". Nobody…I mean nobody…was concerned about the tiniest hairline that only the very sharpest professional could find with his highly trained eagle eye. Today, the "registry folks" stomp on each other to buy a PCGS 69 coin at a truly ludicrous price…and not because the coin looks even the tiniest bit better than its 68 counterpart. Can they see the difference with their own eyes? 9 out of 10 registry collectors cannot see any difference!! They buy it ONLY because PCGS says its better on the grading tag!!!! And to add some real fuel to the fire, if you crack out 10 pre-1972 PCGS proof 69 coins and resubmit them to PCGS for grading, it is exceedingly likely that most of them will get only a 68 on regrade!!!
It is true that PCI standards for numeric grade, cameo designation, and deep cameo designation are not quite as strict as those of the 2 major services. The fair market prices reflect this quite well (in some cases too well, i.e.. undervalued). But be clear about this: PCI has not lost sight of the BIG PICTURE! Coins with clearly nicer eye appeal are generally awarded higher numerical grades. Coins with clear cameo contrast are awarded the designation without splitting hairs about it (the 2 major services try constantly to split the tiniest hairs). Coins with exceptionally strong cameo contrast are acknowledged with the deep cameo designation again without trying to split hairs! For proofs of the 1936-42 era, there will never be enough cameos designated by the 2 major services to support full collections. There are a few dates/denominations that were simply not made with enough cameo frost to satisfy their excessively strict standards.
The moral of this story is simple. If you want to build a full collection of really beautiful cameo frosted 1936-42 proof coins don't hold out strictly for PCGS/NGC examples. Buy them in PCI holders, and/or raw and sprinkle a few PCGS/NGC examples into the collection if you want to and your finances allow it. Your collection will be affordable and tremendously rewarding.


The Franklin 50 cent piece. The current overly harsh grading of cameos at the major services borders on ridiculous.
Those of you that follow my auctions know that I’ve been occasionally talking about the fact that NGC now grades cameos just as tough as PCGS. Most of you know that I am a professional in this cameo niche…I sent this coin to NGC feeling totally confident that I was spending my grading dollars wisely…that the coin was going to be graded 67 cameo.
THIS COIN IS A NO QUESTION 2-SIDED CAMEO!!! JUST LOOK AT IT!!!
THE PIECE IS VERY CLEARLY ONE OF THOSE REALLY EARLY STRIKE 1955 HALVES WITH HEAVILY FROSTED DEVICES SET AGAINST DEEPLY MIRRORED FIELDS!!!! The fields on both sides are truly superb…they just glisten at you with gorgeous mint bloom. JUST LOOK AT THOSE WONDERFUL HEAVILY FROSTED WHITE DEVICES SET AGAINST STARK JET BLACK FIELDS!!!!

 

On your recommendation GDJMSP it is now mine. Thanks!

 

I totaly agree with the Cent and Half Dollar.....but I would have to see the dime in hand before I could say if I would give it CAMEO or not....from the photos I wouldn't.

Speedy

 

Who said the coins have to be all that valuable? I would think that the cost of purchasing the coins would be minor especially since it would be recovered at the end of the study.

You do bring up one other interesting point that I hadn't addressed earlier and that is the time required to complete the study. If it takes too long it begins to introduce another variable into the equation. The possibility that grading standards may have changed slightly from when the study was begun until when it ended. But some comparison of grades recieved during the final few submission to how they were graded during the first few could possibly be studied to see if they had changed. Although if the grades for a company are inconsistant throughout ten it wouldn't matter.

 

Grading Companies

I have some gold coins and I was considering getting them graded. They are modern (St. Gaudens DE, Liberty DE, etc.) I was thinking about going through ICG because they allow direct submission, are $20 for a 5 day turnaround, and rank high on www.greysheet.com (second to PCGS).

Any suggestions? Thanks.

 

Here is a quote I took from someone else who went through a dealer to go to PCGS.
"Originally Posted by bandito974
Yea he charged 12.00 for shipping to
14.00 shipping back from Florida
30 for slab
15.00 for himself.
I wish I would have known that sounds like I got poked..."

If you belong to the ANA you can submit directly to NGC.

 

The GreySheet is good for somethings....I disagree with their rating of Grading Companys...and many others do too....
here is how I list grading companies

NGC
PCGS
ICG
ANACS
PCI

ANACS and ICG are even right now IMHO.

And I am....and just got my package from NGC so I can send coins in.

Speedy

 

Remember that not everyone agrees with Speedy's rankings, I sure don't. The biggest problem with ICG is that they over grade modern coins. If you are considering sending in a classic US coin (pre-1964) then they are every bit as strict as the best in the business and the greysheet ranking reflects that.

Where you send your coins should be based in part what your goal is. If your goal is immediate resale then NGC or PCGS is your best bet since those 2 are the most accepted by the market place (PCGS especially so) right now. But if you want convenience and just a corroborating opinion then ICG is your best bet because they accept direct submissions and are relatively cheap. Additionally if you have red cents that you want to remain red then ICG is the best choice (as long as you intend to hold the coins for a while) becasue they use the Intercept Shield in their slabs and that is the finest anti-tarnishing product available.

ANACS isn't recommended right now because they just moved from Ohio to Texas and they are still backlogged from their move. That should improve in the next few months though, but the more serious concern is that they have drastically loosened their standards, which could destroy them as a tier one TPG.

PCI is only recommended for authentication as the numismatic world widely recognizes that they seriously over grade coins.