How we detect fakes

I didnt want to spoil the fun for others, so I didnt comment. However, I would also add the style if off, Augustus is depicted with a weird bouffant hair-do.

 

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Since all of the ancient people have, by definition, died off, how is it that we even know what their coin looked like? Did they write about them and make drawings of the coins for us? Law enforcement uses the term provenance to explain the trail of an object from one place to another. What is the provenance of these coins? I understand some have come about from shipwrecks or other means. And who's a reputable dealer in these coins? Please, educate me!

 

Written accounts, drawings, who is on the coin as well as what, where the coins are found. Yes, some coins have a provenance that will take you all the way back, but most don't. CNG is one of the most reputable places to buy from. I would also recommend, if you find a coin you like, check out wild winds. They have a large data base with pics as well as descriptions. Much of this you can find out by simply googling these kind of questions.
I hope I've answered a few of your many questions.

 

There are written accounts describing some coins but those are a relatively small number and cannot necessarily be trusted. Instead, those who research ancient coins have to play to part of the crime scene investigator to a large degree, looking at the evidence we have now. The most reliable source is of course the archaeological evidence: individual coins and hoards found in the ground, though of course there are varying degrees of reliability based on whether the hoard or find report is on a fully documented dig, something found by a farmer and reported to the local authorities or perhaps a group of coins that come to market and are reported by the seller to be a hoard or a recent find. That said, some coins are rare enough to not have any documented examples from hoards or were simply not hoarded and we may not have hoard or find evidence for that exact type and in those cases we have to rely on evidence from similar coin and look at the physical properties of the coin itself. That said there are definitely some coins whose existence is disputed, for instance the Constantine Pannonian Hat bronzes.

As far as where these coins come from the vast majority on the market are metal detector finds, either of single coins or of hoards where the owner buried them(or lost a coin purse in some cases) and for one reason or another never retrieved them. Unfortunately most that come to market don't come with any information regarding the find context because the laws in many source countries declare every man-made object older than a certain age(generally a century or so) found in the ground property of the state, though the UK for instance has much more collector-friendly laws and as such it is possible to buy from some finders in the UK and get full info as to where a coin is found.

 

Welcome, John! This forum is very friendly and we often recommend web sites written by collectors who have attempted to answer questions that new collectors often ask. For example, page 2 of this site:

http://augustuscoins.com/ed/numis/

will help. It explains why so many genuine ancient coins still exist. For much more, this page lists many more sites:

http://augustuscoins.com/ed/sitelinks.html

 

Thanks for the links! I'm not sure how much I'll get into ancients, but I like the idea of having something that's been around for a long time and wonder about the people who had it. To me, that's the fascinating part of it! In the meantime, I'll finish filling out my collection of Morgan dollars.

 

You have indeed. Thanks!

 

I just saw this great discussion. I didn't see any direct comments about most counterfeit ancients I've seen in the past decades. This thing about casts...IMHO, based on any deceptive ancient I've seen in a very long time, they are die struck copies and NOT casts. The really dangerous counterfeits no longer have edge seams and cast bubbles. Perhaps @Barry Murphy at NGC can back up this opinion.

I guess it all comes down to the quality of the fake as castings certainly exist.

 

I think you just missed it. See post #6 in this thread and several that immediately follow it.

 

I started this thread with the title "How we detect fakes." I meant, as I said, the "we" to be those of us on the Yahoo CoinForgeryDiscussionList using photos of eBay coins. I wrote

I did not claim to thoroughly explain "How fakes are detected" (by pros).

True. That means "we" (on the CFDL)
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/CoinForgeryDiscussionList/info?yguid=116957790
are unlikely to expose them.

 

Actually I did see transfer dies and other references; yet, I believe it needed to be highlighted.

 

Sorry, I thought you all were a group of professionals as any of your posts I have read - including the OP - appear to be very informed.

 

Legitimate businesses that make replicas are common for many types of collectibles. However, isn't plainly marking or otherwise identifying them as replicas typically the common practice? Even if their intentions are legit, by not marking them as replicas, they are knowingly part of the problem.

 

I posted some links to a great set of articles that will provide a good primer on the main types of fakes we see in ancient coins and how to spot them.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/how-to-detect-forgeries.281399/