How to tell Morgan dollars from cast fakes apart?

Ok from what I can tell, the coin looks dull/unlifelike without any luster and blurred or disorientated letters/numbers. Easy enough. What about the fake's you posted earlier here? How can you tell the difference in those?

 

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Especially when they insist on buying raw coins. One may not love TPGs, but at least the authenticity part is very rarely in question. Just no point in buying raw Morgans, unless one has expertise, and wants to put them in an album (what is the point of that--you will have 6-8 holes in the album, due to expensive dates). So, the moral of the story is trust the TPG in terms of authenticity,

 

While I agree with what you are saying...they know that (the counterfeiters) and they are now making counterfeit slabs. So, one shouldn't blindly trust the slab, we must learn about slabs too...to make sure the slab is authentic.

 

Agreed. Slabs should be verified, as well as the coins.

 

and that's the best possible advice there is.

 

I have tried to memorize as many of the VAMS as I can, and pay close attention to the kinds of markers that show up repeatedly. I figure that if I can ID a coin to VAM, it is unlikely to be a fake - not impossible, but unlikely. So, aside from the very low value coins, I only buy coins that have unique markers.

 

As many from my generation like to say..."tru dat."

 

The following is not arguing, just a request more info.

Are the counterfeiters that good? I am talking about patterns of pitting, die polish scratches, reeding and minuscule die gouges. If they are good enough to copy those things and use planchets of the correct weight made from real coins, then what would be on fakes that is not on the real coins. I can't see them making coins that accurately copy even the tiniest die markers, but then also having other things that would ID the coin as a fake. About the only thing I can think of would multiple coins having exactly the same patterns of machine doubling or PMD.

I use these markers for the same reason that people use the positions and details of mintmarks to verify coins like 09S VDB cents and 16D Mercury dimes. Are those types of diagnostics now worthless, too?

 

There are new machines that can copy the surfaces of coins, and replicate this into a die. Historically only cast coins, (since they are made from real coins), had the same markers, but had other evidence of being cast. Die struck fakes were made from fresh dies, so didn't have the same characteristics. However, there is now evidence of these new copy machines making dies from real coins, die characteristics and all. For evidence, there was an article a few months ago in the Numismatist documenting a coin with the correct die diagnostic for a certain date, but used on a different date. Luckily, the counterfeiter didn't want to make a new reverse die. However, that die used on the correct year will make a pretty convincing fake.

Do I think there are some fakes out there good enough to get past TPG's? Yeah, most likely. Just look at the Omega forgeries in the 70's that may never have been caught if the guy hadn't gotten cocky and marked the dies.

 

thats what really scares me, the fakes out there that are unnoticeable and are being traded as legitimates.

 

the thing you don't realize, is these trusted dealers buy their stock from other people who are not so trusted, since they can produce these near-perfect electrotype copy's.

 

I understand Doug, but those are one off's if I am not mistaken. I am referring to dies being made from real coins, then being used to strike near perfect reproductions by the thousands or tens of thousands.

 

That's the problem. If even the most knowledgeable collectors can be fooled, it doesn't make any difference how trusted the dealer is. For every story about a trusted dealer treating a customer right on a fake, I'd bet there is a story where the dealer never had the opportunity to do right because neither he nor the collector ever realized a coin (or slab for that matter) was fake. Unless you want to re-submit every coin you buy for re-slabbing you will never know for sure if the coin is real. Even then, you can't be sure that the TPG will get it right. Bottom line is that even dealing with a trusted dealer is useless if you never find out that the coin is a fake.