How to tell clip vs. damage ...

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by nuMRmatist, Jul 1, 2020 at 3:48 AM.

  1. nuMRmatist

    nuMRmatist Well-Known Member

    Can't get a good pic til daylight ; cropped pic of yesterday's find for the moment here ...

    Both sides are smooth, as is the edge. Seems to me that a hit would result in 1 side protruding on the cut ; maybe the edge too - unless ground down afterward (which does NOT appear to be the case).

    It will probably go free , if any member wants it.....................................

    blob.jpg
     
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  3. Corn Man

    Corn Man Active Member

    Zinclons at there finest
     
  4. paddyman98

    paddyman98 Let me burst your bubble! Supporter

    That is DEFDAM - Definitely Damaged :yack:

    It is not a Incomplete Planchet. (Clipped planchet)

    It is a Copper Plated Zinc Planchet where the plating was damage and the zinc rotted away.
     
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  5. nuMRmatist

    nuMRmatist Well-Known Member

    I'm thinkin' that too, 'cause organic matter really smells bad when it rots. No clue tho' why an INorganic material doesn't smell ??? :rolleyes:

    CornMan - Zinclons ? THERE from planet 'Zinclo' - right ? In the sky, right THEY'RE - right?

    C'mon guys - get your coffee down 1st..

    ed.:
    Never mind corn ; I see the Zinclon in my pic - right their ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020 at 6:17 AM
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  6. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Tom Hanks in A League of Their Own: "There's no proofreading in baseball!"
    ~ Chris
     
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  7. paddyman98

    paddyman98 Let me burst your bubble! Supporter

    Seriously now..

    A Incomplete Planchet issue is created when new planchet is being cut out from a sheet of coin stock. It is actually an overlap of a previously cut out planchet so it's not actually clipped.

    Also if you take a another coin of the same denomination it would fit into the curve of a true Incomplete Planchet . look at yours.. Another Cent will not fit into that curve. Why? Because it is actually damage and not a Mint Error of any kind..

    We shouldn't worry about anyone's IQ.. I think just as important is if a new coin collector is willing to actually learn or not. Common sense is an important factor in the learning proccess. And boy there are many who lack common sense :bucktooth:
     
  8. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    That is definitely damage. Here are a couple of clips:

    Ragged Straight Clip
    13FEB20 1959P Ragged Straight Clip.jpg
    "normal" curved clip
    08DEC19 1964P Clipped Planchet 1c.png

    Double clip 1972D Half Dollar Double Clipped Planchet.jpg
     
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  9. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    Agreed that you have zinc rot and the piece in question broke away from the coin. PMD.
     
  10. Fred Weinberg

    Fred Weinberg Well-Known Member

    1. 'Cut & Tear' marks inside the clip, from being punched
    out 50% from the planchet strip.

    2. Blakesley Effect - the 'soft' rim opposite the clip, due to
    lack of metal when the upset rim was being put on the
    blank (before it was struck as a coin)

    3. Metal Flow - outward towards the clip.
     
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  11. paddyman98

    paddyman98 Let me burst your bubble! Supporter

    And here is a Triple (Clipped) Incomplete Planchet from my collection -
    3691627-004(1).JPG

    And here is a diagram so you can see where the different types of Incomplete Planchet issues occur from -
    clipsheet2.jpg

    The White Circles represent the normal Planchets that were punched out and the darker circles is where the cuts overlapped the previous planchets.
    That's how you get different types of Incomplete Planchets.
     
  12. Chip Kirkpatrick

    Chip Kirkpatrick Well-Known Member

    I have been wondering about this subject too and how to determine the differences. Am I understanding that a clip is smooth and a similar coin will fit inside the contours and a broken coin will not and that’s how to determine the difference?
     
  13. nuMRmatist

    nuMRmatist Well-Known Member

    I asked that very question yesterday - about a clip being PERFECTLY curved. Another here who seems relatively knowledgeable said 'no'.

    'Not a Mint Error of any kind' ? Someone here just posted a shredded SLABBED cent that was NOT a perfectly curved 'clip'. Trapezoidal would be a better description for what was posted......................................
     
  14. paddyman98

    paddyman98 Let me burst your bubble! Supporter

    I can see your a fairly young newbie to really understand these issues. I gave you some good information.. Not sure if you totally understand it though..
    Your Cent os DEFDAM - Definitely Damaged
    End of story.
    In time you will comprehend.
     
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  15. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Or he won’t...
     
  16. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster It seemed like a good idea at the time.

    @Fred Weinberg comment about the punch and tear characteristic is a great diagnostic to use. As the planchet is punched out of the strip, approx. the 1st half of the edge will be cut. As the punch continues, the thinner metal will tear as the planchet is pushed out. Normally, you don't see this on a regular coin because the upset mill destroys this artifact as the rim is raised. But since the clipped area isn't in contact with the mill, the punch and tear appearance remains. Once you know what to look for, it's rather obvious

    Unfortunately, I don't have any pics to share, and people rarely post pics or the edge of clipped planchets, but there should be a few good ones in the archives
     
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  17. nuMRmatist

    nuMRmatist Well-Known Member

    A couple of you just had a discussion about what correct 'clip' errors are called.

    I'll accept that that whichever those 2 are, each might know more than me about errors.

    Until THEY can decide correct nomenclature, lessons / explanations (of my cent) are exercises in futility.

    (and by INorganic Chem in college, I know that Zinc DON'T rot. If it corrodes, it would NOT do so, WITHOUT FIRST, or at least in sync, with breaking the plating bond of Copper at the breach)
     
  18. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster It seemed like a good idea at the time.

    @paddyman98 pic in post #10 is an excellent visual of the types of clips (I know it's an incomplete planchet, but I've been calling them clips since I started collecting 50 years ago, so I'm too old to change :oldman:)

    Is a clip perfectly curved? Well, how perfect is perfect? From the schematic, you can see that some will be curved, some will be ragged, and some will be straight. Then you need to consider that on a curved clip you may have some outward metal flow during striking, so it might not be a perfect fit for another coin but it will be close.

    Edit to Add: The OPs coin has "zinc rot". The copper was breached and the zinc has corroded. Although technically incorrect, "zinc rot" seems to be a frequently used term to describe this type of corrosion
     
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  19. nuMRmatist

    nuMRmatist Well-Known Member

    Perfect points hoops.

    I've asked those very Q's recently, specifically with respect to that slabbed and shredded cent that someone posted recently.

    Seems to be no concensus .................................. ?
     
  20. Chip Kirkpatrick

    Chip Kirkpatrick Well-Known Member

    Would somebody please address MY question on this matter? I’m trying to comprehend this.
     
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  21. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Not always.
    There are ragged clips as well. Look at the picture that was posted earlier with the different types of clips. It depends on where the planchet was punched in relation to the sheet of metal that will determine the type of clip.
     
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