How to safely, naturally tone a coin

That's an interesting experiment, seems to work pretty well. Was this freshly cut oak, or already seasoned (I'm thinking about volatile substances in the wood)?

 

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You guys are really pushing the limits of intentional improper storage especially employing a taco bell napkin.

Many might not know that the original purpose for artificially toning coins was to hide surface problems. It is only since the boom of the rainbow toned coin market that coin doctors have tried to tone coins in order to sell them at a premium for outstanding eye appeal.

Now I am not saying that this coin was artificially toned before you bought it, but now that you know it is a problem coin, any attempt to re-tone the coin will make it an AT cleaned coin. Before you attempt to re-tone this coin, think about how you feel right now. Do you really want another collector to have the same experience you have had with this coin? My advice is to sell the coin as is and take the loss and chalk it up to numismatic tuition. I just think it is ethically the right thing to do.

I also agree that several responses to your post were very harsh. I hope that you will not perceive my response that way. I sympathize for your situation but feel that you may be in the process of compounding your original mistake by attempting to re-tone the coin. I wish you the best of luck with this coin no matter what happens.

 

piece of a seasoned rough plank.

 

Nice tan.

 

To all my fans and supporters:hug:! Just got off the phone with Craig at NCS. Wrote two long emails with before/after photos. What a total disappointment. I explained that I manage quite a few people myself in my job, and if I had a dissappointed customer as I am, I would do whatever it takes to make it right. I offered to trade coin back for fair market value ($300-400??) based on the hairlines. I explained that the mineral oil on my coins that were sent in could have been easily removed with a 30 second dip in acetone or isopropyl alcohol with no impact to the coin. He explained that any residue on the coin would be removed with their propriety chemicals. Anyone with experience (NCS certainly are the experts right?) would know that these spots could not be removed except by mechanical methods. I sent these coins in about 4 months ago and believe it or not, I have learned a lot since then. I now look at this coin and know with certainty that such spots could never be removed. His response was that he could not do anything for me and he had a budget to be concerned about as well. I should state he will refund the conservation fees and that was much appreciated. I was more frustrated about failure to admit a mistake in judegment, which never happened. I told him that I don't know what his client base is but ( a lot of 20-100K coins verse lower end stuff like mine), but in my business I would never leave the conversation the way he was leaving it. I told him I will never send a coin to NCS (I won't buy damaged ones) and most peoples' response on this posts were not on the side of NCS. Very dissappointing response on his part:crying::crying::crying: As well I had asked if he would read this post and he said he wasn't going to, or that it wouldn' change anything. Doesn't that mean he wouldn't care what his customers thought or other potential customers? In the current economic state of the world I would think happy customers are a vital part of cont'd success.
Here's what I sent him:

Dear Craig this is my follow-up. I have not heard from you and I am a little
frustrated at this point. If you would read my posts on Coin Talk on 01/09
called "how to safely, natural tone a coin". The response by my fellow
numismatists. I think I was very fair and pro NCS but I have two ruined coins
that may take 10 years to retone and I could easily screw them up if I try to
accelerate the toning. All the while I will not enjoy the coins (particularly
the 14 D) and would loose at least $200 on this coin in my opinion and several
hundred on the 1869. I will post your kind response on these coin forums, both
Collectors Society and Coin Talk, but as of yet it hasn't been good press. Many
posters faulted NCS (people with a lot more experience than myself). I take
responsibility for cracking the coin out (the 14 D), but the issue at hand was
that on my invoice I said quote "PLEASE LIGHTEN/REMOVE OBVERSE SPOTS. WAS IN NGC
VF 35 SLAB AND WAS CRACKED OUT. MUST HAVE GRADE AT NGC. HIGH IMPORTANCE! On the
1869 it said " small obverse spot, top Left. NGC grade top priority! I had as
well, called Danielle several times and explained all these coins had light
mineral oil on (I suscribe to this as EAC collectors do). I told her in more
than one conversation to let the evaluator know this and if it would preclude
grading to simply remove with acetone or what benign product (distilled water)
to remove. That is I didn't want my coins chemically conserved because they had
mineral oil. I would like you to call me back any morning this week before 9 am
my time. I really can't take this kind of call at anyother time. I am on PST so
this would be 12 oclock your time which should give you plenty of time. If you
could call back tommorrow that would be great as I called for you today and
spoke with Danielle.
> ---- deleted wrote:
> > Dear Craig,
> > Thanks for taking the time to take my call and consider my situation.
Overall I felt NCS gave me excellent customer service. Danielle was very helpful
as were Mike and Patrick re: various questions I had. The 1913 D Lincoln turned
out much better than expected with a big finger print on the reverse removed
which I posted on US Coin Forums. The 1923 and 1921 Lincons came out nice as
welll, however the rust spot on the 1923 on Lincolns head was still there.
> > I will proceed with my concerns over several coins that should not have been
conserved (IMO) now that I have learned more since submitting them. I am certain
the 1914 D would have graded as you can see it came from a NGC slab and I did
nothing to the coin except apply mineral oil and dab dry with a microfiber
cloth. Actually this was true of all of the coins which I stated to Danielle and
told her if NCS felt this was a problem they could simply remove with acetone.
There was no other surface residue on these coins as you could see from the
photos except for the problems that I explained on the submission form. I knew
these coins well prior to submission and have been very careful re:
conservation/preservation of them. I keep all coins in airtites in less than 40%
humidity in IS box's in a ziplock bag with rechargeable dessicants and all the
air sucked out.
> > My Time Warner Cable account only allows a limited amount of photos to be
sent so I will have to send out of order and in multiple emails. The 1914 D was
brown with no visible hairlines whatsoever. I mostly wanted it to grade as you
can see on my invoice #5179063 I underlined "MUST HAVE IT GRADE". I have learned
more since then and now know that you can't get spots out of a coin that are in
the planchet such as these spots around the numbers "1914". These are never
removeable from my understanding unless you scrubbed the coin. I did not have
this knowledge when I sent this coin in. In should not have sent to NCS, but I
am very frustrated that it was conserved in that the toning was removed and now
you can see from the photos to follow in the subsequent email that the coin is
now devalued. Now I have to try to accelerate the toning or wait 10 years?? and
hope the coin does not come out looking AT and therefore ungradeable. If feel I
have lost a significant amount of money on this coin in terms of it's selling
powere due to the conservation. I paid $625 from Heritage and now I don't think
I could get more than $400- 500 raw with the harilines now evident (I hope I
could get that much?). I have put it in an paper envelope with a "Taco Bell"
napkin in a ziplock with a dessicant in my safe and hope this "calms" the coin
down. Please read the posts I started re: my 1869 "NCS before and after" on
11/27/08 in the "Numismatic Tangents" section of the Collectors Society Chat
Boards. In the end I said I liked the coin, but I was rationalizing and trying
to feel better about it. The more I thought it I do not like the 1869 at all
after conservation and it has a very obvious cleaning due to the removal of the
toning which happened to be quite attractive. As well the spot toward the front
left of the obverse was not at all removed. These photos will follow. This coin
costs me $550 which I could have recouped prior to the conservation and now I
think I would lose several hundred in my opinion, but who knows. I will keep the
coin and and am storing it the same as the 1914 D and will have to check it at
regular intervervals. I was fine with the 1904 being bodybagged as I see how it
could be considered recolored no problem there. Most of my coins that were
conserved, except for the 1913 D which came out really well turned bluish,
burgundy colors which were not very attractive to me personally. The one that
bothers me the most was the 1881 IHC. I would have rather not had any of the
spots removed as they were inconsequential to the coin in comparison to the
negative color change that occurred after the conservation. I was very sad about
this coin. The 1915 D came out nicely as far as the reverse spot to the bottom
right but it turned blue as well and it was a nice RB coin prior (was in a 64
NGC holder and now in 63 RB). Overall I have very mixed feelings, but would feel
apprehensive to send copper in again accept maybe for a finger print. I would
depend on what was wrong with the coin. I spend about $240 dollars and got
several graded but lost a lot of money as well so this is disappointing. I would
like to have assistance getting the 1914 D graded again if the toning looks
acceptable in time. Please tell me how I can be helped.
> > Sincerely (deleted)

 

I have to agree with you that Craig's response was inadequate. I think you made it quite clear on the order form what you were asking for. Sorry to hear that things ended up this way.

 

You really have changed my mind about NCS I was planning on sending a couple of coins both worth around $350 each , seams they will take proper care of coins over $5000 but show little regard for us smaller collectors , too bad as it's both our loss .
rzage

 

Yes, I now know that, but it is unfortunate it has to be that way. Part of their creedo is to conserve only coins that can benefit. No reason for me to be bitter. Expensive lesson learned. I wil keeps these coins and figure they will get better like a fine wine. I'll save up my money for the alledged market crash and buy an AU 14 D for the same price?

 

Extremely informative thread. Good work.

 

listen to him its 100% true

 

For stubborn cases, wash thoroughly, then rinse and repeat. He should at least end up with shiny hair.

 

BQ- I tried this and a carbon spot grew on the coin after doing this about 10 hours. I reduced size with a product called Verdigone, and now have it stored in my album. Maybe this method works, but it grew spots on this coin and another coin, FYI

 

Retoning any copper coin.

I found something that is great for toning or retoning copper coins.
It is called Dellers Darkner, and is sold at many online coin shops.
This stuff makes copper coins look great.

 

Yes- John- be careful with that. I would notedly dilute it with vasoline. Also look up what happened to my S VDB with Dellars. Do a search under "Dellars and my Whacked S VDB"

 

Dellers Darkener is a good product, but you should be aware that it does not work wonders.
As Boss said, check out his thread on an 09 S VDB.

 

It would seem that PCGS often downgrades a coin if they can't be sure how the surface is under the toning. This is why many high end coins get cracked out dipped and then re-submitted in the hopes of an upgrade. Not a practice I agree with as eye appealing toned coins are hard to come by.