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Message:: [QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 2017648, member: 112"]Yeah Paul I've read them, read them all as a matter of fact. You see, that's what I do and what I have done for many years. I read articles about coins written by people who know coins, and I read them all the time. Now as for quotes, well you mean kinda like these ? Greg Reynolds -I am not implying that all such certified coins are accurately graded or are fairly graded. Indeed, there are plenty of PCGS or NGC certified coins that have been mistakenly graded even though they have been doctored or are otherwise seriously problematic. Further, there are many PCGS or NGC certified coins that have been mistakenly overgraded in the views of most relevant experts. ........................ I wish that it was practical to discuss all of the Indian Head Eagles in the “Bentley Shores Collection.” Even some of the coins that most experts would regard as being overgraded were very attractive. ............................... I am not implying that all PCGS or NGC certified coins are desirable. I have seen PCGS and NGC certified coins that are terrible. I am insisting that, for U.S. coins valued over $250 each, only PCGS or NGC certified coins should be considered. Of course, each collector should reject some PCGS or NGC certified coins and accept others. On average, though not always, I find CAC approved coins to be more desirable than PCGS or NGC certified coins that are not CAC approved. It is important, however, to not make generalizations and to evaluate each coin as an individual, in my view. Collectors should learn at least a little about coin grading and should often ask questions of experts.  ....................... In several recent articles, especially in one that I wrote during the winter on grading issues, I have emphasized that there has been a growing trend since 2009 for bidders to look past the certified grades and adjust their bids based on an interpretation of the underlying grade of the coin, even when the ‘true’ grade is less than the certified grade. So, a coin that is PCGS or NGC certified as grading 66, for example, will now often bring an amount of money associated with a 65 grade for the respective coin, especially if several leading experts regard the true grade as 65. Of course, it is not always true that an auction result will be determined by an underlying true grade. Even if a 65 grade coin is PCGS certified as grading 67, perhaps after being PCGS graded 65 on twenty previous occasions, there will often be bidders who believe the 67 grade or accept it for other reasons, sometimes for registry sets or investment purposes. The ‘so called’ plastic premiums, the extra funds for coins that are overgraded or controversially graded, have gone down dramatically since 2009, on average. In another words, the ‘plastic premiums’ are much less, on average (though not always), in 2012 than such premiums were from 2003 to 2008.   ........................ Doug Winters -Another factor is grading: many examples are conspicuously overgraded and few are choice and original. ............................... ....... but this is partly due to the fact that many of the EF and AU examples which appear for sale are grossly overgraded and have problems. ............................ I thought that grading was decent but unspectacular in 2011. I still see coins in new holders that are doctored and some that seem so blatantly so that it makes me scratch my head and ask “how did they ever miss that?” But the level of consistency that I experienced, personally, in 2011, from both PCGS and NGC was pretty impressive. I think something that everyone has to remember is that you usually don’t see the coins that are undergraded or even properly graded in dealer’s inventories or in auctions. Those coins are easy to sell and they get placed with good clients. What you usually see are the overgraded coins that are “hits” for the submitters. I was intrigued by PCGS’ Secure Plus service when it was first announced but have been pretty underwhelmed so far. It doesn’t seem to have much of a foothold in the market and some of the coins I’ve seen in Secure Plus holders are merely overgraded/doctored coins that were re-packaged by submitters to make them seem “fresh.”   ............................ I’d choose from the following sorts of coins: accurately graded “Gem slider” 18th century silver type (most AU58 early type is way overgraded and seldom original), ........... Today there an estimated 100-125 known with most in the EF40 to AU50 range. The best that I have seen are two or three that I grade AU58; most of the coins in AU55 and AU58 holders, in my opinion, are overgraded.   ................................ Laura Sperber -(on mint products)  - I have NEVER EVER been a fan of the Mint.  It’s all exploited marketing. Yeah, maybe in 50 years this stuff will be something. Today to me, its hyped overpriced and overgraded (how the heck is everything 69 or 70) junk.  ............ It was sickening for us to continually walk the bourse floor and see so many tables of “big name” dealers hawking pure dreck (KNOW THE TERM-it is NOT inexpensive or collector coins-it is doctored or OVERgraded crap).  ........................ Prices are definitely firming now for “better” coins. The dreck (LOW END, UGLY, or OVERGRADED) is FINALLY going away. Now dealer cases just have smaller inventories, not a bunch of unsightly garbage. A year ago, dreck was just starting to crash and it looked like good coins were moving up in price when they were actually frozen. Now that dreck has established itself was being worth only a fraction, the better coins have actually started to rise in price.  ..................... Those are all from a previous post found here - <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/grading-kennedys-for-grade-and-or-cameo.246264/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/grading-kennedys-for-grade-and-or-cameo.246264/">https://www.cointalk.com/threads/grading-kennedys-for-grade-and-or-cameo.246264/</a> And every time you see this ................... that indicates the quote came from a completely separate article. And a dozen or so ? You'll find a whole lot more than a dozen articles. And there are comments about TPG over-grading in every one of them. All made by people who are highly respected in the hobby. How many times do they have to say it Paul ? How many of them have to say it ? Over the years I've presented evidence, hard evidence, many, many times that show that the TPGs changed grading standards, and that many, many respected names in the hobby believe that the TPGs routinely over-grade coins. And if they routinely over-grade coins, then what other reason could there be besides the fact that they loosened grading standards ? But you dismiss all of it, say it doesn't mean anything, that it doesn't prove anything. And no, you're not alone either. There are others who think the same way you do, that it just isn't true. That it can't be true. Now you made the comment the other day that the only way that you would believe it is if one of the graders publicly said so. Well ya see, that right there is the problem. Because no matter how much evidence there is, you won't believe it, because you simply don't want to believe it. You and I both know that nobody from the TPGs is EVER going to stand up and publicly admit that they changed grading standards. It would put them out of business. So all that is left is the evidence, and the coins themselves with their assigned grades are the best evidence there is. And who judges this evidence ? We do ourselves. Now you say that coins are not routinely over-graded. I say they are. And a whole lot of respected people in the hobby agree with me. And I have provided evidence that that is true. So I'll ask you one more time - how many of them have to say it, and how many times do they have say it - before you believe it ? How about if I provide you with written evidence, written by PCGS themselves, that shows that they changed grading standards, and changed them when I have always said they did ? Would you believe that ? Personally, I don't think you ever will, because you simply don't want to.[/QUOTE]

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