How Much Tooling Can You Tolerate?

Yes! It's true and I regret it!

Never again!

Thanks for reminding me, Greg!

 

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I bought an obviously tooled coin and Doug totally called me out on it ... and ever since I get sick-to-my-stomach when I see/read that a coin has been smoothed and/or tooled!!

=> nowadays, I welcome a bit of grunge on my coins (it keeps them honest and it just feels right, ya know what I mean?)

 

Some years ago I bought a really nice large Greek bronze of Elagabal, that made me very happy. Only gradually it dawned on me that coins are tooled and mine was, too. If only the seller had mentioned it.

 

Yah, that sucks ... I hate that feeling

Pellinore => I agree ... I totally respect when a dealer mentions "smoothing, tooling, cleaning marks, etc" ....... it shows a lot of class/honesty and it makes me come back to their store(s)

 

This topic (would you knowingly buy a tooled coin?) has been discussed in this forum at different times, and I continue to find it interesting to hear other collectors' thoughts.

Doug's sample coin (above) is actually interesting in its own right and the tooling that changed its fundamental type is reason enough to purchase it (for an acceptable price).

Carausius' EID MAR example is particularly thought-provoking, since if the underlying coin is genuine, how many collectors could resist the opportunity to own such a historical coin at a low price, even though it's tooled?

For me, the coin below (which I've shown on this site in other threads) was sufficient to help me understand my own attitude toward tooling:



I was considering bidding on this Colosseum sestertius but after viewing it in Heritage's offices prior to auction, the obvious tooling on the reverse was completely unacceptable. The price was acceptable, but the coin wasn't. So I know firmly where I stand on Carausius' conundrum, but I'm most certainly not denigrating any other collector's different opinion on a coin of such high demand and rarity.

 

no need to regret it sir, it just shows how you feel about tooled coins. very strongly

 

I was more referring to the gold aureus version of the EID MAR type. One is holed (currently on loan to the BM, I believe). Others have been proven false or questioned as to authenticity. Now lets just pretend that the owner of the holed one decided to spend $10,000 for a really, really fine restoration of the coin filling the hole in such a way that no one on earth could possibly tell that it was done. We all know that coin has a hole. Would we then all deny that it existed because it had been repaired or would me accept it in the same way we accept oil paintings that have been slashed by vandals and repaired by the finest experts? Perfect denarii have sold for more than the holed aureus. Here's hoping that who ever owns the coin is not tempted to 'upgrade'.

Which one was that Steve? Sauromates? Most of them are tooled or so it seems. Does that mean they don't exist either? Pretty soon the only thing left to collect will be mint states since all the VG's will have become VF's and the VF's FDC's. What we say here means nothing. The market is guided by people with much money and not the slightest idea why we are so hard on their treasures.

 

Eventually you learn to love all your coins.

Kushan, Wima Kadphises. Circa first quarter of 2nd Century AD with 20th century alterations. AE drachm.
Obv. King standing facing, wearing Santa Claus suit and hat; bag of gifts and tamgha to right.
Reverse: Siva as Hermey the Elf, ice pick in right hand, riding six-legged headless Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer.
Göbl -, Mitchener ACW -, Ripley's Believe-It-Or-Not Freaks and Oddities -.
Acquired 2011.

 

It was $15.50 postpaid in 2012 IDed as what it is on eBay. I thought I had a link for NGC by numbers but my number on this one does not work on the US resource. Perhaps that is because the number was not logged since the coin failed scrutiny???

In the early 1970's someone sent me a photo of an as of Pescennius Niger (none exist). I can not find the prints now which probably means they are in the attic. I copied the obverse in 1997 and posted it on my website. I believe this coin started life as an as of Severus Alexander or something similar (big guess here) but I would love to see it again and would even buy it for every bit as much as I paid for the Zenobia if I ran across it. Lets not get carried away here.

 

Thank you, Ides! I stated in a previous thread that a tooled 2000 year old coin is still a 2000 year old coin. Altered yes—but a piece of history also—and worthy of preservation. I threw mine into Baltimore Harbor—It does not need to be there and I regret it! As ancients collectors we are the guardians of these coins—and I regret my childish action.

 

I can tolerate some smoothing but not a fan of tooling. I'm sure I have a few that are tooled as well as have fake patinas.

 

Teeheehee

That's worse than my Wicked Witch of the West tooled Oreo.

 

I looked at the example Ken posted when that CNG auction went live. Got excited for a second, but as soon as i took a close look at this coin and realized how much work had been done, I knew that this coin wasn't for me.

I can accept some smoothing of the fields, but (re)engraving any details is where I draw my line.

Different people will draw that line in different places and it that makes them happy I'm good with that. This is supposed to be a hobby and hobbies are supposed to be fun, I'm not going to tell someone else that they are doing it wrong, but I do hope they understand what they are doing.

 

So folks are into hobo nickles; some are into hobo sestertii.

 

Have you guys seen the Grapnok medallion?

 

More proof Aliens have visited here.

 

"How Much Tooling Can You Tolerate?"

Zero. I'm most adamant about that.

 

Yes, poor ol' Sauromates ...

Bosporian Kings, Sauromates I, AE48 Units
- Implements of Battle –
Date: circa 98-104 AD
Size: 27.94 mm
Weight: 9.49 grams
Obverse: TIBEPIOC IOYΛIOC BACIΛEYC CAYPOMATHC, Sauromates seated right on curule chair, holding sceptre tipped with the head of Trajan
Reverse: TEIMAI BACIΛEωC CAYPOMATOY, Round shield with spear, surrounded by battle axe, horse head, helmet, and sword in scabbard, mark of denomination (MH) below
Attribution: MacDonald 417
Description: "A nice example with light tooling and smoothing typical for this issue"






... I still love this sweet ol' coin (but it was a great coin-lesson => thanks again for shooting from the hip, my mentor friend)

 

It does seem that way, doesn't it?

This one was purchased in my first months of collecting. The listing said "smoothing in fields".


BOSPORAN KINGDOM. Sauromates I
AD 93/4-123/4
AE 48 units (29mm, 10.84 gm, 12h)
Obv: diademed, draped bust of Sauromates left
Rev: Nike advancing left, holding wreath, flanked by mark of value M-H, all within wreath
Ref: MacDonald 397/2

 

deliciously wicked