How much more do proof coins worth than their normal versions?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by ibuycoinsoffebay, Oct 19, 2017.

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  1. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    How they wash the planchets most likely, they're probably all just copying each others methods
     
    baseball21, Oct 23, 2017
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  3. SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom

    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom Well-Known Member

    Well, regular coins intended for general circulation only to have their purpose ambushed by greedy hoarders such as, well, US... those would be REAL.
    Sucker bait would be the premium paid for a genuine USMINT capsule and a fuzzy blue box accompanied by a transferrable and therefore worthless certificate of authenticity aka COA so you can CYA when selling it to some other sucker...
    Those'd be the sucker bait.
     
    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom, Oct 23, 2017
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  4. SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom

    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom Well-Known Member

    It's fungal in nature. Deadly Albino Black Mint Mold, don't step barefoot on coins that show signs of it, your feet will rot off. Or at least that's what I heard.
     
    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom, Oct 23, 2017
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  5. Lemme Caution

    Lemme Caution Well-Known Member

    Thank you. I'm a bit out of touch in many ways regarding the ins and outs of modern numismatics due to having taken an extended break from any sort of serious coin collecting from 1965 (when I first came over from Europe to live in the good old USA) until I took the hobby up rather vigorously again this past year, so I'm finding myself having to play a lot of catch up now.
    As for the DABMM, that's been detected on airplane dinner trays and in backyard hot tubs also, so it's not really a numismatic exclusive after all.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
    Lemme Caution, Oct 23, 2017
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  6. Lemme Caution

    Lemme Caution Well-Known Member

    O.K., now I get it. Many thanks for the illumination!
     
    Lemme Caution, Oct 23, 2017
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  7. Lemme Caution

    Lemme Caution Well-Known Member

    Thank you for yet another chunk of enlightenment; I'm actually finding myself enjoying having to absorb all this so quickly...it's a good mental exercise at 70!
     
    Lemme Caution, Oct 23, 2017
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  8. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I wish it wasn't a thing, but fortunately most of the proofs have a burnished version as well where it isn't an issue.
     
    baseball21, Oct 23, 2017
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  9. Lemme Caution

    Lemme Caution Well-Known Member

    And just like that, THERE'S yet another thing for me to tuck away in the old noggin for (important, helpful, and useful) future reference! :happy:
     
    Lemme Caution, Oct 23, 2017
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  10. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Just to to clarify I meant the proof designs. My fault for that omission
     
    baseball21, Oct 23, 2017
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  11. Lemme Caution

    Lemme Caution Well-Known Member

    I WAS just a bit puzzled since I've only heard of burnished UNCIRCULATED, so thanks once again, this time for the further clarification.
     
    Lemme Caution, Oct 23, 2017
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  12. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I'd suggest before you come here and make general questions to individuals who seemingly make absolutely ridiculous responsive statements, you learn about some of the internet tools.

    Premiums will vary dependent upon numerous variables, and sometimes there isn't a positive differential, generally dependent upon current condition.

    However, if you use some of the tools that dealers apply when selling, as the "Price Guides" of various TPG, you'll find an answer that may support your thoughts.

    One of the useful tools I use, is the PCGS Price Guide which I currently have in front of me. I'll quote some prices. Mercury Dime(e.g. - 1936 PR60 @ $550, MS60 @ $12, PR67 @ $2750, MS67 @ $95 - 1942 PR60 @ $325, MS60 @ $8, PR67 @ $325, MS67 @ $70
    Indian $5 Gold - 1908 PR60 @ $5250, MS60 @ $485 YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW THE REST AS THEY SHOW FOOLS
    St. Gaudens $20 - 1908 PR60 - PR67, ~300 To 1000 times MS)

    JMHO
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
    imrich, Oct 23, 2017
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  13. SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom

    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom Well-Known Member

    What's wrong with ridiculous?
     
    SilverWilliesCoinsdotcom, Oct 23, 2017
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  14. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    Maybe acceptable for the "Royal Order Of Jesters", probably less so for assisting Numismatic Neophytes learning from "senior" members of CoinTalk.

    I'm a potential buyer for sellers of TPG PR graded coins at MS comparable level grading.

    JMHO
     
    imrich, Oct 23, 2017
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  15. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    @ibuycoinsoffebay I had noticed that for modern commemoratives, not for older coins.
     
    Kentucky, Oct 23, 2017
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  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    There is and for a lot of years has been a lot of speculation about what causes milk spots, but as of yet nobody knows. As for how they wash the planchets being what causes it, I think it unlikely. I say that because if it was then you should be able to safely remove the milk spots for they would have to be on the surface of the coin - not in the surface of the coin.

    And I'm saying they are "in" the surface of the coin, meaning within the metal itself, because no one has found a way to safely remove them. And anything that is on the surface can be safely removed.

    And rather obviously if it's not on the surface then the only thing we are left with is that whatever it is that causes milk spots has to be within the metal itself.
     
    GDJMSP, Oct 24, 2017
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  17. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    They are fascinating under high magnification. They almost look like cancer. The reason they are international may be that the silver blank suppliers are few and sell internationally.
     
    V. Kurt Bellman, Oct 24, 2017
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  18. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I agree, whatever it is I hope someone figures it out and puts a stop to it. The thing that always gets me is why does it happen to some and not others even when they're from the same batch? But until someone figures it out it' ruined silver proofs for me for the most part
     
    baseball21, Oct 24, 2017
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  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Well whatever it is it's been going on for a long time, I've seen examples of ASEs with milk spots from the 80's and they didn't start making them until '86 so it may have been going on for as long as the coins have been being made. That, coupled with the fact that it's in the metal tells me it's in the alloy which means it could be in the silver right from the beginning. Or - maybe it's just in some silver and not all of it. And that would explain why it's found in some coins and not all of them. But there's another reason too.

    What I'm getting at is this - take the process back to the smelters, the refiners. They typically refine the metal down to its purest form and then sell it. Then others buy it and they make the alloy they want. It might be 90%, 92.5%, 99% - whatever they want it to be based on their customer's orders. Then they sell it to their customers who make planchets or jewelry. Then they sell the planchets to the mints.

    Point I'm getting at is that whatever it is, it's already in the metal when the mint gets the planchets. And it is being out there by whoever mixes the alloy. But for the milk spots to show up when the coins are struck, or after some period of time after the coins were struck, whatever the impurity is that causes the milk spots - it has to be right at the surface of the planchet or it's not going to show up on the coin.

    Picture a planchet in your mind, it's thick like this -

    ____________

    ____________

    Now if the impurity is anywhere in the middle - it's not going to show up on a coin. But if it's right at the surface where the air can get to it, then it is going to show up. I'm pretty sure that's why milk spots show up sometimes and don't sometimes. It's all a matter of chance. Milk spots are only to go show up when the impurity just happens to end up right on the surface of the planchet.
     
    GDJMSP, Oct 24, 2017
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  20. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    It is "batchy". Very few of my bullion style ASE's have them, but most of my 1996's do. They're tanish/brownish in tone, not white.
     
    V. Kurt Bellman, Oct 24, 2017
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  21. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I agree you're onto something there. The one thing that I did wonder though if anyone has investigated it would be if something that changed in recent years with the wash or whatever reacted with the metal causing them to be more likely. Something seems to have changed at some point in the process making them more common. It could be entirely the smelter/planchet makers fault, but whatever it is the problem actually seems to be getting worse and spreading
     
    baseball21, Oct 24, 2017
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